Perip. Ep. 2 - Laura Cathcart Robbins on Aging, Recovery, Menopause & Legacy
Heather Lowe: Hi, babes. Listen up. You landed here at the Peripeteia podcast, and I'm so glad to have you enjoy these real girl talk conversations about the things that matter. From the ordinary to the extraordinary, and every plot twist in between, I welcome you. Life has a way of throwing us curveballs, and these are the stories of female resilience while navigating change with newfound purpose.
This is Peripeteia. I'm so glad you're here. Let's embark on this journey together. Here we go! 

Thank you for coming, Laura. Oh my gosh. It's so nice to see you. We were just chatting. And as I said, like I read Stashed so I know you and I'm in love with you and I fell off my chair when you said yes to doing this podcast.
So thank you. My podcast is brand new. And so I wanted to ask you first, like, when did you start yours, the only one in the room? And what was your motivation for starting that? Because it's, I'm learning, it's quite an endeavor.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: It is quite an endeavor. Um, first of all, thank you for having me on your first season of your podcast.
It's very special. When I started, I'm the only one in the room. I asked 10 of my friends who had name recognition or high follower count. to please come and be my first guest. And, you know, I couldn't believe that they just obliged and they were like, of course, um, it's such a special thing. So I, I appreciate being, um, one of your first guests and, um, So the, the only one in the room came out of a viral article that I wrote in 2018 about being the only black woman at a 600 person writers retreat with Elizabeth Gilbert and Cheryl Strayed.
And when that article went viral, I was actually in a podcasting class. And this kind of goes back a little bit. The reason I was in the class was because I had written a book proposal that was rejected by everyone that I sent it to by every single agent. And two of them had sent me back. actual emails instead of just a form rejection.
And one of the, the emails I got back, um, gave me kind of a laundry list of things that I might want to do to build my author's platform. And one of the things she suggested was to start a podcast. And I didn't, I hadn't listened to a podcast at that point. I didn't know anything about them. So I took a podcasting class.
In the meantime, one of the other things she suggested was that I start writing articles. So I had written this article. It went viral. It was my first article. Um, and it went viral and it went viral in a really big way. So the, it was really impactful for me and a lot of the responses I got, I thought Black people would connect to it because a lot of Black people have been the only one in the room.
But what happened was, Like almost everyone connected to it because they were just like from all over the world I got all these responses in the first day my inbox filled up that it never happened to me before I didn't even know it could fill up and and people just kept saying I know what it's like to feel alone in a room Full of people.
Here's my story. So we decided to create the podcast to tell those stories Um, so that's, that's how The Only One in the Room was, was formed. It was, uh, we launched in April of 2019. Um, we have a little over 800 episodes. We have, um, 5 million and something downloads total. So, um, and, and we've been written up in different, you know, uh, podcasting journals and lots of recommends, which is really cool.
And it's a storytelling podcast.
Heather Lowe: I love it. I love it. It all is coming together. Um, first of all, I had the opportunity to meet Elizabeth Gilbert at issue recovers conference last fall. Yeah, of course, like fell off my chair and did everything wrong. And she was very gracious. And we ended up being able to connect.
But the whole thing about She Recovers, the theme was sharing our stories, or our stories, our strengths, and I'm a huge, I know we both have recovery stories, I'm a huge believer in, um, that stories heal. So, and I, I'm a, a writer also, and I would love to write someday, so I feel like, thanks, this is free consulting, like, first of all, I didn't think to bring, like, people in with the most followers, although, add that to the list for second season, I just brought in.
People , that I wanted to talk to. So it's interesting. Um, there's 12 episodes on this first season and some of them are like my, um, middle school youth group leader, like from a small town, like nobody knows, like they're just people that I'm going to connect with, but the people I really mostly want to connect with are storytellers and they are writers like you and they're people that I fell in love with through reading their Bye.
Bye. Words. So that is definitely you. And I just think it's, it's beautiful that you've been able to do that. And I've listened to your podcast too. I think it's great. I mean, this idea of feeling alone, I guess, right. Feeling alone. Or othered. Yeah. Yeah, or other. Yeah. And I have to just ask about this because, in your book, you talk about like internalized racism.
And I want to know what that means to you, because I wouldn't have the same understanding of that, right?
Laura Cathcart Robbins: I'm sorry, I'm laughing because the publisher wrote that and I want to know what it
Heather Lowe: means.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: I mean, someone, someone at Simon Schuster read my book and decided that that was the right paragraph to write there.
Yeah. And I was kind of like, internalized racism. So what does that mean? Yeah. And I, I guess what it means is, um, that I kept it inside when there was racism around me growing up and that I didn't, or that because , I'm part of this system where racism is so intrinsic. I accept it as a part of life.
Um, I don't know. Yeah, you know what, that's it. And I think that's so funny that that's what
Heather Lowe: you do. You're like of all the things you could ask about,
Laura Cathcart Robbins: why it's great. It's wonderful. No one's ever asked me that. So that's, that's perfect.
Heather Lowe: Well, I love that. So that's, I was going to say, did anybody, has anybody ever asked you that?
So the other thing is when we. We're deciding what to talk about. I mean, there were so many avenues where we could go because I know you have a recovery story. I know you have like a divorce story. And I know you've got an entrepreneur story of writing a memoir story. Like there's so many things we could talk about.
But I asked you if I wanted this to feel new to you. I know you've been on a lot. You host a podcast, you've been on all the podcasts, you've done the circuit with your book tour, and I wanted this to feel like new to you. And so I gave you the opportunity and you said the same thing. You said, thanks. And nobody's asked that.
And what I would really like to talk about. Is you have a birthday coming up and I'm hoping that this can air and your birthday week is my goal. Oh, that'd be awesome. So you have a milestone birthday coming up. Tell us about that.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: I do. And, um, I, and I really appreciate you reaching out to see what might be fun for me to talk about on your show, because that's not always the case.
Usually people have an agenda, which is fine. Um, and it's, and it's typically more on like the tabloid level of the book. Because there's a lot of vulnerability and intimacy in there and they want to know more about the divorce or the addiction or my kids. Um, which I talk about. within the confines of the book.
I don't really talk about my, my family now, but I just really appreciated you asking me that. And I was like, what a great prep question. Um, and I'll just say one thing really quickly about, um, your podcast guests. And I love that your middle school was it?
Heather Lowe: Yeah. Like my youth group, youth group. Yeah.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: I love that.
And, and that's where I am now is I'm really just bringing on people who have great stories. I'm not worried about follower count or, um, name recognition. And, you know, the, the hardest thing about launching a podcast is making it discoverable, you know, and that's, and that's why I chose to try to find people with great stories.
And. high follower count or name recognition, but but really, um, it's word of mouth is people sharing it like that's really how you make a discovery. So you got to make a great podcast so that people want to share it, which is I'm sure what you're doing. So,
Heather Lowe: yeah, no, I love it. And, um, I feel like there's extraordinary stories in ordinary lives.
Yeah.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: Yeah. Yeah.
Heather Lowe: So, but yeah, I mean, to get people can help by listening, rating, sharing, reviewing, like all the things. And if these are great stories, I want it to get in the headphones of everybody listening,
Laura Cathcart Robbins: right?
Heather Lowe: So if there's some people. That have larger followings that can automatically raise it up so it can reach more women and and heal more women and hear more stories and feel less alone.
Yeah, that is, of course, ultimately the goal and I should have some strategy around that as well.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: I mean, kind of, but also just launching with that in mind, you know, the strategy will come like you'll see what's working and what isn't. And, um, yeah, it's really exciting. I'm really glad you're doing this.
Heather Lowe: Thank you for being my cheerleader. Now I'm going to set up a follow up call with you, of course. Um,
Laura Cathcart Robbins: so back to my birthday, and we talked, we touched on recovery a little bit. So I'm in a sober support group, um, where in this group, like we guide other people through the steps and traditions of the group.
So I, I have 10 women that I'm doing that with now. And the Every month we all meet. In person, some on zoom, but mainly in person and just check in with each other and the conversation with the last check in kept going back to aging and menopause and how it was impacting their recovery because the two are really intertwined.
Like, I remember. When I was, so I got sober when I was 44, I was 43 and then I turned 44 just a couple of weeks later. And I was in a, in, in one of those support group meetings and there were women in my mind, they're old, right? They're probably my age now, but I'm looking at them thinking, oh, this is like an older women's meeting.
And they were all talking about how lucky they were that they drank through menopause because they don't know if they could have gotten through it otherwise. And I'm like, well, damn. I'm not gonna get you to do that. That sucks that they're all excited that they were able to like they didn't stop drinking basically until after they went through menopause and, um, and I hadn't had any symptoms of anything at that point.
And I don't even think I was perimenopausal then I was just, I was actually one of those really nice reprieves between having babies and. You know, then, then descending into menopause, but, um, so I turned, I turned 60 in August. That's how old I'll be in August. Nobody's
Heather Lowe: going to, nobody's going to believe that either, by the way, just so you know, but okay.
If you say so, you're turning 60, I would never have guessed it. That's so great. That's so great to hear.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: Yeah, I mean, and it is and it isn't like if I if people did guess it, like, is that a bad thing that they guess my age? Because like, what's wrong with looking your age? You know, there's But I, I do a lot, um, to stay fit and well and, you know, keep my skin glowing and I try to take really good care of myself and I try to take really good care of myself externally and internally.
Um, I think that my recovery has a lot to do with that because it's part of my routine and it's part of what keeps me mentally stable and well is like food prep, which I do on Sundays and my daily workouts and meditating. Like these are all things that And drinking a lot of water. Cheers. Um, but I drink a lot of water and actually water is the only thing I drink.
I don't drink anything else. Um, I used to drink a lot of Pepsi. Like I loved Pepsi, but that was years and decades ago. Um, so it's, there is something about getting older. You know, I was born in 1964. I was born in the Negro Ward of the Illinois Research Hospital near you.
Heather Lowe: Yeah. No, I'm shocked. I've never heard of such a thing, really, that it was separate.
Oh yeah. My babies couldn't be birthday babies. So my mom had to wait
Laura Cathcart Robbins: on a gurney in the hallway until a bed opened up in the Negro Ward for her to give birth to me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, And, and like that's where I started, like my birth certificate said Negro. Like that's how old I am. Um, it doesn't, it says black now, but.
Heather Lowe: And that was not that long ago and not that long ago. Yeah, that is like ancient history that is like in our lifetime. Right. Yeah. Isn't that amazing?
Laura Cathcart Robbins: Yeah. And you know, it's, it's. It's like, I, there's something about, you know, I'll be 16 years sober this summer and Oh, thank you. And which is great. Right. I want to get more years where I'm sober, but that also means I'm getting older chronologically.
Right. Like I am now just another year older and it almost feels unfair. It feels like the sobriety clock should stop the aging clock. Yeah. I really enjoy it. But yeah, so that's, that's, that's my, that's my, my birthday news is that I'm just really looking at what it means to be 60. And, you know, my, my friends, I have friends that are, oh, you know, 20 years older than me that are 80 and above who like, oh, you're a baby, right?
60. And then I look at like Angela Bassett and Demi Moore and, you know, so many other, um, You know, uh, female celebrities who look good. I suspect with help, but that's neither here nor there. Um, but they look really good and they look pretty fit. That's really my, my big thing is I want to be fit and mobile.
I want to have muscle tone.
Heather Lowe: Yeah.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: Yeah.
Heather Lowe: Happy birthday. Thank you and 60. Awesome. And I'm just delighted because you're like my big sister. Like you're just a step ahead of me. You know? Like you wrote a book. I wanna write a book. You start a pack podcast. I'm starting a podcast. I'm 48. You're turning 60. Like this is perfect.
Yeah. For me. Yes to, um, what a, what a selfish episode. I've just created so I can learn everything I need to know. Um, it is a milestone. And I get like the sobriety count goes up and then so does the years, but also time. What a funny thing, right? Because you have more time because you're sober in each moment, like nothing is wasted.
Like when I was wasted, time was wasted because it's just lost. I was blacked out or brown or not fully. Present are available for anything we have. And like, I've had so much tragic, um, loss in my life that aging feels like a gift because not everybody gets it. You know, people were like ripped from me. Um, with no rhyme or reason at too young.
So I always, with every new wrinkle and a chin hair, whisker on my chin and all these like weird things that are happening as I had into that era, It's like, thank you. But also our bodies start feeling like it starts to look different. It starts to be different and the world views us differently too.
Right.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was, I have, I mentioned that I have friends in my eighties. I also have friends and one of my best friends is exactly 20 years younger than me. And. Um, she, I was telling her about how we're going to start talking about in my sober support group about, um, we're going to call it a pause menopause before agitated menopause, um, because that's like, the thing is like, if we can pause before or when, when agitated menopause, when agitated, that's it, instead of reacting to something, try to trying to respond.
And I, you know, I, I've been a little bit of a unicorn all my life. I, you know, in, in a, in a great way and also just kind of in a different way. Like I had absolutely symptomless periods. I never had a symptom with a period. Which everybody told me would mean that I was in for it with menopause. Like I was going to go through it.
And I've had pretty symptomless menopause, honestly. Like I haven't, I haven't experienced anything that my peers describe. Um, but certainly there are two things I like. I've always been super thin. I was like 90, I was 96 pounds, like all the way through my teenage years. And I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm almost five, nine.
Like I'm tall to be that thin, right. Aspirate to gain weight, desperate, like sending away for like weight gain supplements and that kind of thing. Um, so, And then, you know, then I had two babies when I was in my early thirties, back to back and still kind of waiting for the weight to come on after that.
And then, so now in my fifties, I noticed that I was starting to gain a little weight, which I really enjoyed, but it was starting to gain it in my stomach area, which I did not enjoy.
Heather Lowe: Right. Welcome.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: One area where I don't want any weight.
Heather Lowe: You're like, I said, booty, like you've manifested this wrong, right?
Laura Cathcart Robbins: You're like, what's happening. And, and so I was checking that out for a while. Like I was checking out my, my calorie intake, which I'd never done before in the way of reducing. I don't be tried to, you know, increase it so that I could maintain. whatever level weight I want it to be. And then noticing that when I ate more, like, then I weighed more, and everything was like right there.
And, um, so what, what, you know, I decided to do, and this was when I was probably about your age, that this started happening, was I was not, I was going to make sure that I did more to prevent it happening because I'm like, okay, the acceptance part of this is when I gain weight, it's going to, I'm going to gain it in my stomach.
I don't think I can do anything about that. So I'm just not going to gain weight. What is that? I need to work out five days a week as hard as I work out, which means I needed to watch what I ate instead of just eating anything that I felt like eating, which is what I had done. Until that, and, or at any time that I felt like eating it.
So I, I shifted, I became plant based like four years ago. So I'm a plant based eater, but you know, that, that was startling to me that this was something that I felt like, Oh, that's never going to be my thing because it's never been my thing. And then all of a sudden it was my thing. Um, and then skin elasticity, like that's also changed, but I've also found that Working out and diet helps.
A lot. But the moment I miss a day or I eat something differently, I, I can see it. I can see the results like it starts to become lax again, which is just amazing to me. Like how quickly like I'm just. Basically holding it together by a string because the moment is not like I could take a week off and not see a difference.
I can't.
Heather Lowe: And that's new. Wow. That's really interesting. And I read that. Black or Brown women, let's say compared to like a white woman, age nine years faster, older, that's probably due to socio economic.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: Yeah, yeah,
Heather Lowe: right. But that your skin will forever be more beautiful, youthful and vibrant and all the things that like this very Polish face, you know, doesn't have.
And so even your, her. Most perfect, beautiful skin is like getting it is it was
Laura Cathcart Robbins: gravity, right? Yeah. Yeah. And you know, and I have, um, friends and older relatives who have more melanin in their skin than I do. And you would just never know how they were like, yeah, I can I can see it in my face. Um, And I, I've always wanted to be browner ever since I was little.
And now I know why, because I would have had more protection.
Heather Lowe: Yeah, that's my neighbor. I mean, she's, she's probably 60, but she literally looks like a teenager to me.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: Yeah. It's annoying.
Heather Lowe: But she puts on her beautiful wig. I'm like, you look like a teenager.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's really annoying. And, and then, you know, that's just another thing to accept.
Right. So like, this is what I have. So how do I proceed in a way that makes, allows me to feel good and feel good about myself?
Heather Lowe: Yeah, I feel like your recovery tools have translated very well into your aging tools. With accepting the things that you cannot change and doing something about the things that you can.
And you are, and that's really interesting. And I think too, like your diet and your exercise. I always say like our supporting. Your old lady body, let's say. So you can bend and move so you can reach for that dish in that cupboard. So you can get out of the car by yourself. So you can walk up the stairs to see that show and sit in the seat that you want.
It sort of shifts from looking great in a swimsuit or something, which is of course, something we always want to do, but also for just like our quality of life, moving forward, knowing with age, physically things happen, they're going to like the process in a, in a circle of life, in a spectrum of life.
Things are going to wind down towards the end, but we want to feel as good as we can for as long as we can.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: A hundred percent. Like absolutely. The work that I'm doing is for my 90, a hundred year old self. Now I want. I don't want to just live long. I, I've seen a lot of people have longevity. I have a relative who's 97, who is absolutely bound to their bed and hasn't been out of it for years and years and years.
I don't want to live like that. You know, I want to be, I want to be Dick Van Dyke, like what? To be springing up onto a stage and doing a quick little dance at 98. And did you see that? Did you see him do that?
Heather Lowe: No, I didn't. But my grandma is turning 101 this month. I see. Yes. Yes. There's nothing really wrong with her.
You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. She played cards. She walks around her building. She says she does 20 exercises before she gets out of bed in the morning.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: Yeah. How much do you love that? Right? Yeah, exactly. But
Heather Lowe: she sees the joy in everything and she says the secret is going to bed with good memories. You know, I love that.
Yeah. So it's living for the old lady body, but it's also to love your feel good right now. And I think about that too, when I want to like, um, eat a cheeseburger or lay on the couch or, you know, all those things, which in moderation, I, you know, I do at times, but this doesn't actually make me, my body feel good.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: Yes.
Heather Lowe: In the now and not in the later,
Laura Cathcart Robbins: or,
Heather Lowe: you know, maybe like one second, it's like alcohol 20 minutes of an uptick of dopamine, but in the long run, it's not. Fulfilling me, but when I eat and move in a way that makes myself happy, my body feels good
Laura Cathcart Robbins: and
Heather Lowe: just feeling good becomes the new addiction. Like it feels good to feel good and you want to keep feeling good.
So
Laura Cathcart Robbins: no, I, I agree. And you know, I, I have a default happy, like ever since I was little, I woke up happy. I kind of went to bed happy. Um, That kind of, I did go to bed happy. Like I, that's, that's just, you know, except for the period where I was really, really, really addicted. Mm-Hmm. , it was always my default. And you know, fortunately for me, I returned to that default after I got sober.
Not right after , but
Heather Lowe: Right. To be clear, not to be very clear. Not right after, not immediately. Yeah.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: Um, no really that, that took a year and maybe almost two years for me to. To regain that default. But, you know, I, I think that has a lot to do with, um, you know, my, my attitude about life. Has a lot to do with my energy and, you know, and the acceptance, like you mentioned, like my ability to accept, and I want to feed that default, you know, anything that allows me to stay in that, because obviously drugs and alcohol pulled me away from it and they didn't do it right away and they didn't do it that quickly.
But once it was in, I, I, of my own power, I could not get it back, you know, until I had put those down and taken some steps away from them.
Heather Lowe: I relate so much. I love how you said default happy. I'm definitely going to use that because me too. And I use that with my clients sometimes like a happy baby when they wake up, right?
Like or a toddler excited about seeing a leaf on the sidewalk. Like could there be anything better? Just that natural joy. And it did return for me too, you know, and it often does. It's like, have you heard a bird song? Like the birds are singing. This is the most magical thing I've ever heard. And I was numb to all of it when I was, you know, in a downward spiral of, Addiction.
So that's where they
Laura Cathcart Robbins: were irritating. If you had been up all night. Goddamn birds.
Heather Lowe: Birds. What do you have to sing about? Totally.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: Or just like had a bad night and you're like, Sure.
Heather Lowe: Birds. Can we wait until noon?
Laura Cathcart Robbins: Please. Yeah, I agree. Is it that shift in attitude allows me to embrace so much of the stuff that I missed and missed out on.
Now, just, yeah.
Heather Lowe: I love your intergenerational friendships too. I think that's so key and so important and I'm lucky enough to have those and I welcome it. And sometimes I'm the old gal and sometimes I'm the young gal, depending on what group I'm in. It sounds like for you, do you have role models? Is it your family or is it your friend group for like, how to age as a woman in your circle?
Laura Cathcart Robbins: So yeah, um, both my parents are alive and thriving. My mom lives in Los Angeles. Look over like she's here. Um, she,
Heather Lowe: she's, she lives right over there. Right over there. No, she lives in the right. Everybody.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: She lives about, you know, 40 minutes away from me, but in Los Angeles and, you know, there's always traffic.
So everything's like 40 minutes away.
Heather Lowe: Uh,
Laura Cathcart Robbins: so she and I are 20 years apart. So she'll be 80 when I turn 60.
Heather Lowe: Yeah.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: And she, you know, like you were describing your grandmother, like my mom does a power walk every morning. She has her, her PT training exercises. She does those on a mat in her living room by herself.
And she is, she's never worn makeup ever in my whole life. She's never been that my parents were hippies when in the seventies and sixties, and my mom has kind of kept that vibe, that hippie vibe. So she, like, she would never color her hair. Like my hair is colored. My hair all along here in front is gray.
And, and it's been that way for a long time. a long time. The back isn't, but this, I have a headband of gray in the front, but so she, she doesn't color her hair. Her hair's white. It's really pretty like white curly hair. And, um, you know, she is just so, it's the active and the passionate. that I admire in her.
She's, she's an artist, she's a painter, and she's so passionate about her work. Like, she, she goes to it every day. She does her exercises, you know, she does her little grocery shopping, and then she's so excited about her paintings. She's so excited about her shows and other artists shows. She goes out to support people.
Um, I want to be that, you know, I want to be, I don't want to be, you know, stuck inside ever. I want to be out and about like she is. And I'll say that I think I'm an introverted extrovert because. I don't even like leaving my house. I, I really don't. But once I'm out, I'm very friendly and it's fine. But I don't really ever have a desire like, Oh, I need to go like be around people.
That's never been a thought in my head.
Heather Lowe: It's so much work to get off the couch. And if there's traffic.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: Yeah, forget about it. But I do want those options. You know, I want to keep those options open. And then my dad, my dad's 84. He's an HIV doctor in Florida. Um, he's been doing that since the eighties and he loves it and he does not exercise at all.
But like when he comes here, he, he visits quite frequently and he'll, he won't run around the court, but he'll shoot baskets with my boys. Like he does not, he looks like he's my age. People think that he's like my boyfriend when we're out because he looks really young and his attitude is young and he moves like a young person.
Um, so they are my, my goals. Within my family,
Heather Lowe: they're active and they have purpose and passion. Yeah. And then older age, they've kept that. Yes. Yeah. Um, I love that. I just heard something about art, um, by art from artists that are still alive. I heard something and it's like, yeah, let them know that you appreciate them and let them benefit from it.
You don't have to wait until they're gone. To buy their art and have it on your wall and you know, your mom's still out there doing that school
Laura Cathcart Robbins: and she's so like she lives for the compliments about her work.
Heather Lowe: Like she really imagine it's like how I feel about your book like if somebody sees it and knows it and appreciates it and it's so personal to you.
Yeah, yeah. And it's very, it's so vulnerable. It's, it's complete exposure.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: Yeah.
Heather Lowe: And somebody says you belong, you accept here. I love you. I, I actually really see you. I hear you and I love you. You're one of mine. Come here. It's like, I imagine it would be the same with, as it is.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: Yeah, it absolutely is. Like she, She puts her soul into her paintings and they all, they're all personal.
They're all memories or, um, you know, scenes from that, that were described to her as a child. Like sometimes she'll paint about her grandparents, but they're, they're all the, they're all these really rich, beautiful, personal. You know, pourings into the canvas and you're absolutely right. It's when somebody sees it and appreciates it.
It's like they see and appreciate her. Yeah.
Heather Lowe: When she paints about her grandparents, did she know her grandparents or was that passed down through story?
Laura Cathcart Robbins: Both. She did know them, but there are also stories about them as young people that, that she really enjoyed listening to. And, um, so some, there's one in particular, that's a story of a, It was, it also because everybody grew up in Chicago.
I all, my family's from Chicago.
Heather Lowe: Um, when you get here, you better be getting on the couch and gonna dinner with me. I'll leave my house. Oh no, I will, I'll leave my house for you. . Yes,
Laura Cathcart Robbins: but there was this, um, this, this chicken place and it was out past Glenco, I don't know where, where beyond that it was. Oh, and there's a name for, I can't remember what the name is, but, um, it was really just a shack.
Like literally a shack and black people would drive from everywhere to converge at this place on Sundays after church, and there was standing room only because you literally couldn't sit down because everybody was elbow to elbow, and they would be eating this chicken in this shack and in their dressed in their church clothes sweating, you know, even if it was cold outside because it's so many people.
You know, um, just standing there together and she painted that. She painted that memory. She never saw it, but they talked about it a lot.
Heather Lowe: Oh my gosh. I love that. I'm sent. I feel a theme here of like an elder. Let's say if that's where we're headed, like an elder's role is a storyteller. Yes, you are. And as I said, like my grandma said, go to bed with good memories or whatever.
It's passing the memories. And she painted, created a memory that wasn't even hers. Right.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: Yes.
Heather Lowe: Yes. Through the generations, it's in the blood. Maybe we carry trauma that way, but maybe we carry. beautiful memories and stories and redemption and healing and belonging. I mean, this little shack which feels like people want a place to gather.
Again, people want a place to belong where they feel like they're not the only one in the room, right? Right. Not the shack.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: Not the only one in the shack. They definitely weren't the only ones, but you're absolutely right. You're, I love that. I love that take on it. So thank you for that.
Heather Lowe: Yeah, it's like legacy.
So if you think that as aging and I feel like you've already done a really good piece of this by having your podcast and having your book and having your groups where you're sharing with it. other women, um, for your boys or your family, you're, you're creating a legacy in that way. So is, do you think about that?
Like six, 60 feels different than 50, right? Yes. Like it's, it's a different era. It's it you're entering into a different era, maybe more twilight or something. I don't know that. Um, the child rearing is in a different place, right? Like, The career you've reached some big heights in your career and What does 60s look like for you?
Laura Cathcart Robbins: You know, I, I really don't know what it, what it's going to be like. I, I don't think I could have guessed what my fifties were like, I wouldn't have guessed that, you know, cause what happened with me was like, I navigated the world through books always. I always read my way through everything from when I was little and, and then I would write stories, you know, like in my journal or in a storybook or a notebook.
And I did that all my life. And then when I got sober, I couldn't write or read for pleasure anymore. It just like something snapped closed in me. And I, I. I decided I, at first it really scared me and I'm like, okay, I'm not going to address this right now because getting sober is really hard and I need to be a mama to my boys.
So I'm going to concentrate on those two things and this will come back. This is what I'm telling myself. I'm like coaching myself through and then it was like two years and then it was three years and then it was four years and I still couldn't write anything other than an email and I couldn't read anything, you know, longer than a paragraph for pleasure.
So I started taking these classes, writing classes, because I know in classes, one, you have pages due and two, you have to read your peers work. I was like, this might just, you know, start the juices flowing again. Like maybe because I'll I'm forcing it, you know, like, um, if somebody is, is, has is starving and they can't just like eat a meal, but you give them, you know, bits at a time until their body gets hungry again.
That's what I thought I would do with reading and writing. And I, I honestly, I did that for like five years and I was starting to get discouraged. Um, and a friend of mine sent me Gone Girl when it came out and I, you know, I put it on my nightstand with all the books that I'd hoped to read but would never read because I can't read anymore.
And I read it and I read it in a couple of days and I was like, okay, okay, this feels better. This feels like more normal. Um, but I wasn't thinking any of that time, so I'm going to have this new career and be an author. But out of these writing classes, I was, I was accumulating pages of what would be a memoir and I was starting and then some of the classes I took, like a book proposal class, you know, to learn how to do that.
And that was the proposal I sent out that got rejected and they gave me that laundry list of stuff I, and I still didn't know, like, do I want to be a published author, but yes, I want to write. Yes. Yes. Yes. I want to write. So I decided, you know, what the hell? My kids are big. I don't know if the younger one was out of the house yet.
He wasn't, he was, he was going to college and still living with me, but my older one was out of the house. I didn't have the same obligations that I did, you know, 10 years prior. So let's just try a writing career and see how that goes. Knowing all the time that the thing I want to preserve and keep and grow is the, the love of writing, the love of reading.
And, and then, you know, the writing career came out of, These, these steps that I took starting the podcast, I did storytelling because she suggested it. I didn't even know what storytelling was, um, and so I took a storytelling class and then found the moth and then I won the moth and I was like, Okay, this is something too.
So it was like everything was like an indicator. Everything was a green light. You know, like keep going, keep going, keep going
Heather Lowe: , so you didn't see yourself as, or you weren't like, when I grew up, I want to be a writer since like elementary school. You were just like, I love reading. I love writing that I imagine took a pause when you were in active addiction, let's say, or did you say like,
Laura Cathcart Robbins: I
Heather Lowe: drink and I write and it helps my creative process.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: Yeah. I mean, Well, really, kind of neither of those. I just wrote anyway because that's all I'd ever done, but it was really hard when I was an active addiction. But I never stopped. I didn't stop doing it. Yeah. And when I was little, um, yeah, I don't know that I was thinking about a career as much. When I was a teenager, I really wanted to go into advertising.
That's actually why I moved to Los Angeles. I decided I wanted to direct commercials. I loved commercials growing up and I loved the idea. I like the whole the just like the industry of advertising with terrible.
Heather Lowe: I want it. I'm sorry. I want to be drugged and drugged in LA.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: And but I really, I really wanted to do that.
And then once I got here, I worked for a commercial director for a little while. And I was like, And this isn't going to work for me. You know, one, there were no women commercial directors. There were no female commercial directors, except for Penny Marshall, who was a huge TV star who had turned to directing.
Um, she was the only female commercial director at that time. And, and so I just didn't see a path for me there, but I didn't think, I never thought. I'm not going to write anymore. I just didn't know if I was ever going to make a living at writing.
Heather Lowe: Or you're going to publish it necessarily. Yeah. And I love that too.
I mean, I want to always, I'm certain there's things that, um, very much felt like a job in writing a book and having to edit and this or that, but hopefully a lot of it is like the process of writing, right? Because you love the process of writing, like even the, even the podcast, because I'm curious about people's story, because I actually want to learn about somebody's story, you know, Genuinely curious.
So to keep that beginner's mind, even as a, yeah,
Laura Cathcart Robbins: that was, that was a interesting switch for me to, from telling my own story, because I'm at my essence, I'm a memoirist. I'm a personal essayist to, um, to telling other people's stories or allowing a venue for other people to tell their stories. That was a really interesting shift because I'm not that interested in people as a whole, like Scott.
My boyfriend, I'm like, so curious, so friendly, like we'll get on a plane and I have a scarf on, headphones, like glasses, don't talk to me.
Heather Lowe: Do not disturb sign.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: And he's looking around in the seats like, who else can we talk to? And, and so, but what I found is what you just said, that I love the stories. So when I could really just find a story that I love and bring somebody on to tell it, that was really satisfying for me.
That is really satisfying for me. And, and I, I've really enjoyed it. I've enjoyed, I didn't know that I would because Like I said, I, I'm not typically that interested in other people and, um, sorry, he's calling me back to back. I'm just gonna message him 'cause obviously he's forgotten. Let's hear him.
Put him on.
Let's see what's going on. might be hot. This might be hot off the press information we need to know.
Right. I just said in an interview, um. Yeah. I mean, anyway, you're
Heather Lowe: talking about him.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: We weren't just talking about him. We conjured him.
Heather Lowe: You had to do a shift. I was wondering too. So that's why doing like a season, see how I feel about it.
It translates to coaching. Um, but I am like social worker was my degree. Like I love people. I'm all about getting to know the people, but like, is the interviewing is, how does that feel or the. I mean, I feel like a podcast can be much more conversational than, and we don't have an end goal of like what your homework is.
Um, so it's a lot of, it's a little different, but still like interviewing people and getting curious about their life. There might be some similarities when you, so now you are a writer. I mean, there's no denying it and it is your career and it is your, all those things. And, um, you're no longer in that ad agency or doing commercials like you thought you would.
Does aging shift in your professional life?
Laura Cathcart Robbins: I probably, you know, I, I think that Because of the pandemic, the way that business is conducted in the publishing world is so much different. I maybe if I were physically in the rooms with all these young people that are really running the show, it might feel different to me and maybe they might look at me differently, but on a zoom, it doesn't feel as much like I'm the older person that they're trying to help along and market, or I'm the older person who doesn't have a perspective that they might be interested in.
It feels, um, very, I, I have, I have never felt my age. Mm hmm in this so far, but I don't know that I would have had the same experience in person.
Heather Lowe: Yeah, okay So there's like 30 year olds who are telling you what you need to do to get your book or editors or whatever playing Yeah, yeah, you're not feeling a maternal Or like I'm uh, I'm irrelevant.
I mean, isn't that the term like am I so relevant or something? Yeah.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: Yeah No, I definitely feel like I need to have my pad and pencil out because I don't know anything about this industry. I mean, I do. I know more now, but when the book was coming out, everything was new to me. Like, Oh, I have to do that. Oh, that's what you guys do.
Oh, like when my agent sent me a
Heather Lowe: pad and pencil, like, wait, don't you just like,
Laura Cathcart Robbins: I know. Take notes on my phone.
Heather Lowe: Isn't this in your notes app or something? How old are you, Laura? Look, look. You're like, I meant notes, like actual notes, right?
Laura Cathcart Robbins: Actual notes. And I, I will, I do take notes on my phone, but I find it to be really cumbersome.
I really like my, my notepad much better.
Heather Lowe: Yeah.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: And, um, Yeah, I mean there's just there's just so many things I didn't know about the industry. I didn't, I didn't really know how a book was made, you know, a published book, not a self published book because that's a little bit easier. But, um, and or there's, there's lessons.
I don't know this easier, but there's less involved when you're self publishing than when there's a publishing house at the wheel. And So I'm absolutely a sponge and I think that might be helpful to them because I'm not like you whippersnapper Don't tell me what to do like whippersnappers like a word that nobody knows anymore.
Anyway,
Heather Lowe: right, right. I I mean I hear you
Laura Cathcart Robbins: But but I'm I don't ever think that I just think oh, this is the marketing expert that's now telling me What I should be doing. Oh, this is the publicity expert that's telling me.
Heather Lowe: Well, this is cool. Cause you don't have like reverse ageism to them or whatever. Yeah.
Like you're young. You don't know anything. You're like, I respect that you would be the expert of marketing. And I would not, this doesn't age. It's based on our experiences, right? Yeah. You don't have, um, internalized ageism either. I doubt it. Like you do the racism as we know. What about culture and society in general?
And Oh my gosh, especially LA isn't that the land of the youth and like youth and beauty is gold and cash and. Um, you age out of that? Are you looked at differently? Does it feel different?
Laura Cathcart Robbins: So one, one huge shift is I don't get hit on anymore. And that, that I think started in my fifties. Where before, you know, kind of wherever if I was like in the grocery store for an hour, somebody would come up and say something that was flirtatious or or maybe even just like a straight hit.
Like, can I get your phone number? Um, It never, ever happens to me anymore unless I'm back East or in Europe, in Europe, I definitely get hit on and like, I was in Washington DC for a book event and my Uber driver hit on me and I was like, what? From the airport. Like I hadn't been hit on in so long. It like it was, it was jarring because there's this invisibility cloak.
That happens. And I know a lot of people talk about that, but that was that. And to be perfectly frank, even though my ego likes the idea that people want it to flirt with me, I was always uncomfortable with it. I always just wanted to kind of go through the supermarket and just do my business and leave and not have to deal with, you know, not not just disappointing somebody.
I don't really care so much about that. But but the the interaction of telling somebody no, thank you. I always found that to be awkward and And I say no thank you because I've been in relationships since I was in my, since I was 27. I was married until I got into the relationship with Scott and then he and I've been together for 16 years.
So it's always a no thank you. I'm not accepting the hit. So, um, I found that to be, um, really interesting, relieving on one hand, but then also like, huh, I am just not seen by people in the same way anymore.
Heather Lowe: Mm hmm. Yeah, I totally hear you. There's a pro and a con to the invisibility stuff, right? I was, um, took the train the other day and I got on and I had my ticket already and it's a new system on an app.
So I had to be a real whipper snapper to get this together. Right. And it was so proud of myself for figuring that out and just waiting. And the conductor didn't even know I was there. Didn't even see me. I didn't have to pay. I was like, well, it's kind of a, I guess it's kind of a benefit of not being seen is that I got a free train ride because nobody.
Even sees me, but like I'm also I'm going downtown, so I'm looking the best I possibly can and still nobody sees me, you know what I mean? It's just like interesting. Yeah, I'm sure that's different, especially for women
Laura Cathcart Robbins: who have
Heather Lowe: been out for their body or their youth or their whatever, right?
Laura Cathcart Robbins: Yeah.
Heather Lowe: Anymore is a change.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: Well, and I do find that women haven't lost interest in me and I don't mean sexually or romantically Yeah, women still notice me. They notice what I'm wearing. They will come across the room. They will start conversations But it's it's it's men. Yeah Yeah.
Heather Lowe: As you don't get ahead. And I'm like, I've been hitting on you this entire time.
I mean, we have a girl crush, right? And we want to dress up for each other. Like you complimented. I'm like, thank you. Because I'm not wearing it for any men here. I'm wearing it for you. And I
Laura Cathcart Robbins: love it. I love it. I told you it needs to be in my closet. You're going to send me the link, right?
Heather Lowe: Yes. Yes. Um, well, have your values changed over time?
I mean, does it change with attention? Yeah. Yeah. Prior to marriage or something. And now it's like, I've been in a long term relationship and then in another long term relationship. So it's different.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: I think that. My, I don't know if my values have changed, but what I thought I valued has changed. Like, I think there was a societal expectation that I bought into that success looked like X, Y, and Z.
And that meant, you know, that, that glamorous life that I had been living for a long time and that was successful. And what I, what I think now is that. If I'm honest with myself, success is health. It's, um, you know, relationships with my children, with my parents, with my friends, with Scott, um, though that that's a mark of success.
Um, serenity. It's a huge marker of success for me. I am so not interested in anybody's drama, like even these women that I talked about that I'm, you know, guiding through this work, I am, I will help them through their drama, but I'm not at all interested in it, not even on a tabloid level. And I, you know, I was a chronic early onset lifetime insomniac.
Um, I had a hard time sleeping, which is why I got addicted to a sleeping pill. And I don't need anything that's going to keep me up at night. You know, I don't need anything that's going to keep me up at night. And I've spent the last 16 years really right sizing my life. Um, and I feel like I'm in a place now, like I have a property tax that I can manage.
The home is gorgeous, but it's smaller. You know, it's perfect for where we are right now. I drive a car that I really love, you know, but it's not, it's not a Bentley, which I would never, I didn't, I never had a Bentley, but. I've had fancier cars, and I love the car that I'm in. And, you know, I just, I just really took a look at each area of my life to see, am I living in a way that's going to mess with my serenity?
And if I am, where can I make those adjustments so that I'm not? And that's what I've been kind of whittling away and adding stuff. Adding the stuff that was missing and whittling away the stuff that interfered with me being able to, to be easy with stuff. And that's, that's really what's changed. So all this stuff that I.
I think I thought I needed to be interested in when I was younger. I'm, I'm pretty much no longer interested in, you know, I, I love going to the movies. I love a good meal. I, I love traveling, you know, as, as we talked about, um, I have to right size that too. You know, because I, I'm not in the same, um, financial bracket that I was when I was married.
So what does travel look like for me now? You know, maybe it's not just whenever I want. Maybe I really have to save and plan for these trips, but God damn it, I'm doing these trips. Like, I'm going to figure it out so that I can go and, and continue to travel. I actually, I'll just say this last thing. I had a business manager up until a few years ago who I loved and he had me do this very, um, what turned out to be a spiritual exercise for me because he's like, you can't afford me more, you have to let me go, but you're also going to have to trim down in some other areas.
And he says, I want you to think about what your five priorities are, where you live, what you drive, how often you travel. Like your ability to just go out to dinner whenever you feel like it, like that kind of thing, like, you know, Local excursions. And it, I came up with 10 the first time and he's like, you need five, you have to go back.
And it was such a spiritual exercise to figure out what my priorities were. And, and I came up with them and he was like, you know, that's a great job. This is a good list. We can do this. So we figured it out so that I could live within those means and still really enjoy my life and live right size. And then I had to let him go, which broke my heart.
But He actually still takes my calls when I have something to ask him, but, um, you know, that was part of it. And that's, that's something I don't know that I could have done when I was younger that I could have looked at it like, like we had talked about with the tools of recovery, like, you know, instead of resisting it, I need to just, if this is what it is, accept what it is and then see how I can, um, go forward.
with this knowledge that this is what it is.
Heather Lowe: I love that. I hadn't heard the term right size and I love that too because it's a shift for me because I was up and up and up the corporate ladder and now starting my own. I have my own business, right? And it's different. Um, and it's great because the possibility is endless, but also burnout is not an option for me, right?
So how much do I want to work and how, how, Intentional. Do I want to be with each client? I only accept a limited amount. Um, you know, all these things, but I think it's a beautiful exercise. And, um, we, we, it seems like we go up and up and up like a bigger house and a bigger family and more money in the peak of our career, and then as we wind down though, we get rid of our things were right.
Cause we don't take it with us. So it's totally appropriate to be doing that. And for me, the question is like. The gold can be like waking up without an alarm, right? Vacationing whenever and however I want. I just got back from a lake house this morning because I can do that, right? Because I set my own schedule.
That kind of autonomy means everything to me. That's worth so much that I have a ton. I don't miss a soccer game of my kids because I don't have to. It doesn't matter if it's at 430 in the afternoon. I don't set a meeting then, right? So different ways to have riches in your life that don't look the same as maybe they did in a different decade or season.
When you think about being remembered, what kind of legacy do you want to leave behind?
Laura Cathcart Robbins: Um, I want to be remembered as somebody who used her voice. Um, somebody who worked hard to get what she wanted. And somebody who loved hard for the people in her life, like. I mean, I, oh my God, my kids, like, I love my kids so much. So it makes me just like, want to just grab them and never let them go when I see them, which they really enjoy.
No, they're like, off me.
Heather Lowe: I call it a smother. Yes, it's a smother. I am a smother. I mean, I've killed so many plants by overwatering. I can't imagine what I'm doing to my children by breathing down their neck all day long.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: But, you know, it's, it's really like, I want to be like, we have a Sunday dinner at my house every, Every Sunday, we have a weekly dinner at my house every Sunday.
Yes. And they bring their girlfriends and my mom comes and my brothers come. I have five brothers. To the two that live here.
It's
Heather Lowe: Sunday for your mom too then.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: Yes, it is. It really is. And we just. I want to be known as the one who made sure that we gathered, you know, that made built these memories that you're talking about, you know, we, we did road trips all the way through their high school.
Like we would start at one point in the country, each person would get to pick a point and then we ended another. And just being in the car like that, it was just like, we have so many memories of that. My younger one's on a road trip right now because of the road trips. He's taking his girlfriend and her family.
On a road trip. They're in Dallas right now. I'm going across the country from Florida. So I want to, I want to be remembered as that person, you know, who, who took care of herself, who worked hard, who used her voice and loved her.
Heather Lowe: I love that. And creating that place together doesn't sound that different than the great grandparents then in their shack in Glendale.
Yes, yes. It doesn't matter that it was a shack, it mattered that you gathered.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: Right. Right. That's so true. I have to say that to my mom when I see her this weekend.
Heather Lowe: I love that. I have one more question then I'm going to let you go. I appreciate all of your time, but is there any wisdom that you would give your younger self if you could go back in time?
Laura Cathcart Robbins: yeah, I think that with my addiction anyway, it was a lot of pretending a lot of acting like it just was required in order for me to indulge. I had to act as if this or act as if that or put on a front or, you know, whatever it was. And. And I think, you know, acting is wonderful as an outlet.
I would have told myself to keep the acting, like, take a drama class. Do the acting up there, don't do it in your life. Don't pretend in your real life. But go, if there's a need to pretend or be somebody else, take the acting class, get on stage, do that stuff. But, um, But when it comes to your real life, don't pretend because there's compromise and then there's compromising yourself.
And I did a lot of compromising myself.
Heather Lowe: Yeah. I think it was protection for you though, in a way like you didn't feel safe. So you had to put on a mask to fit in or belong or pretend that it was okay because it was supposed to be okay, or it was okay for everybody else. So why not you?
Laura Cathcart Robbins: Well, for sure, when I was little, it was survival.
But I think when I got older, Um, and I've known people who had to do that in order to survive who weren't like me when they got older. And I think I really needed substances because the pretending was too hard after a while. And not everybody needs that because not everybody carries that into their adulthood the way that I did.
I never let it go, you know, not even a little bit. So, but, but thank you for, for, for just recognizing that I needed to at first because I really did. Yeah.
Heather Lowe: Yeah. And here you are, my gosh, so beautiful living the legacy that you want, being the person you want to be. You are doing all those things. You are using your voice.
You are creating that gathering place. I mean, for your intergenerational family too, and no doubt the work that you've done in the work that you've done in recovery, it heals the generations forward and backwards. So I think that is huge. And all of us get to benefit from you with your words and your heart and your spirit and sharing your story.
So thank you for that.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: Thank you for that. Thank you for that summary just now. That was beautiful.
Heather Lowe: I appreciate your time. I'm so grateful. To you, happy 60th birthday. I hope it's your best decade yet. And, um, we've got lots of follow up now with each other, but I appreciate, this has been a really beautiful conversation and it's helped me, it's helped me at 48 looking ahead to what my, you
know, next 10 years would look like.
And I appreciate you. You're a mentor and a pioneer for me. So thanks for everything, Laura.
Laura Cathcart Robbins: Thank you.
And that's a wrap for today's episode of the Peripeteia podcast, a talk show for women. Join us in the insider community with a seven day free trial to continue the conversation at ditchedthedrink. com. And don't forget to download my free ebook, The 12 Truths to Change your Life. Do it for the plot. We'll see you in the next episode. Lots of love.
