AUDIO Perip Ep 12 Jamie Varon
Hi, babes. Listen up. You landed here at the Parapatea podcast, and I'm so glad to have you enjoy these real girl talk conversations about the things that matter. From the ordinary to the extraordinary, and every plot twist in between, I welcome you. Life has a way of throwing us curveballs, and these are the stories of female resilience while navigating change with newfound purpose.
[00:00:28] Heather Lowe: This is Peripatea. I'm so glad you're here. Let's embark on this journey together. Here we go! Oh my gosh. I am so excited for our guest today. Actually, a friend of mine asked who would be a dream guest? And I said, Jamie Varon And here she is, Jamie Varon on the Perepeteia podcast. Thank you for joining us. Jamie is an author. You're like my dream come true because you're, you wrote Radically Content, which was the first book that I read, which is like, how would you describe this book?
Like, um, I think
[00:01:04] Jamie Varon: Like a self help memoir kind of book.
[00:01:06] Heather Lowe: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I was like, self help, but it's like better than self help. And then you also wrote a fictional book, which is like the transition I think every writer wants to do. And that was so fun, such a fun read. I totally loved it. And now you've got your third book out, The Alchemist.
Is that true? Yeah. Fresh off the press. And that's a different sort of book. That's back to like, it's self help essays, maybe poetry.
[00:01:32] Jamie Varon: Yeah. It's, um, essentially like my Instagram posts, like short vignettes. Um, there's like 180 of them. So 180 days. ,. To me, that's like more of a completion of that part of my life of writing these like vignettes on how I've been healing and working through certain things.
So I just wanted to compile that into a book and have that live. Off of social media, even though I love social media, I feel like the temporal nature of it really as an artist, as someone who loves books, I just, I was like, I want this to exist in a more permanent form.
[00:02:10] Heather Lowe: Yeah. I love that. I'm sure you came across my feed and that's how I found you via social media.
So God bless Instagram for that. But this book more like a daily devotional almost. Yeah. Yeah. Daily promotion. Yeah. Awesome. I can't, I can't wait to get it. It's making its way to me right now. So you're new. So I love it because there's so many things that we can talk about. You have so many topics that you've covered in all these books.
And when I asked you, it's like the thing coming up for you right now. Is this releasing self doubt and having self belief, which is the thing we're all working on, I think, whether we use that language or not. So can you share a little bit of your personal journey around like discovering and cultivating your self worth?
I know it hasn't always been there, but you're growing it currently.
[00:03:02] Jamie Varon: Yeah, I would say that like self doubt has just been the pervasive feeling in my life since I was as conscious as possible to my feelings and what was going on, you know, I look back in retrospect to being a teenager and it was like, oh, it was hesitancy and self doubt and thinking that Someone else somewhere needed to affirm me, like, you know, I was lovable if someone was interested in me or I'm good enough if I get, you know, an opportunity, especially like In high school, I wasn't that into school, but when I got to college, that's when I think like my addiction to achievement began.
Cause like in high school and middle school, I mean, I was a burnout student. Like I was just bad at school. I had no attention span. Um, I was so bored. Like it was so boring to me. But then when I got to college, I was like, Oh, now I can actually pursue things that are interesting to me. And I think that's when my
attaching self worth to my achievements and how kind of like impressive I could be to, you know, I worked on campus. I had to get, you know, I put myself through college. So I had to get like on campus jobs, work study programs. And so, you know, You know, when I started getting attention and getting like good jobs for my age and, um, you know, adults were telling me, Oh my God, you're so smart.
You're so good at this. It was like, Oh, I was filling up. Okay. So other people tell me I'm good enough. And then I collect it like little, little like knickknacks and talismans. And I just like, The hold those at night. Like I'm good enough. I'm going to file them. Yeah. You stop evidence. I'm like
[00:04:58] Heather Lowe: compliments, flattery.
[00:04:59] Jamie Varon: Exactly. Exactly.
[00:05:01] Heather Lowe: And gold stars and A pluses.
[00:05:03] Jamie Varon: Exactly. And I think that that was a slippery slope. Cause that of course, like it feels good to be acknowledged and appreciated. And so. It's not like you're going to be like, no, don't say that to me. But it's about how much I, um, bought into it as like, that is the way that I know I have value.
Um, so that became self doubt of like a roller coaster. If you're getting attention, you're getting those achievements, you're doing enough, you're constantly like innovating , then you're good enough, like to me, you know, and then, , When there's no attention and it's a slow time then the doubt comes and I just honestly for a very long time thought that's how you're supposed to be like
I didn't know that you could just personally decide, , I'm good enough. And I believe myself, like, I just was so fixated on how people were perceiving me externally. I don't know. I probably could figure out why, but it just was. And so, um, when I started to, it was about, I would say, like, 2017, 2018, 2019.
I think it, the catalyst was maybe 2016. I started to just go, I, I'm never going to achieve enough to hit that moment where I'm just like, okay, I believe in myself or like, okay, I'm good enough. I've hit the point. Like I had done so many impressive things. And I just was, I was looking at my stockpile and going, why is that still not enough?
What else can I possibly do, you know? And then in my mind, it was like, well, you haven't had book deals, so you need book deals. And then I got book deals, and it still wasn't that. And I was just like, so this idea of self belief became such an important part of, um, what I wanted to cultivate. , you know, first it was like self love, self trust, and now it's like just this unshakable self belief.
And I started kind of studying people that I really admire, like especially creatives that I really admire, and The through line of every story is like they were told no and they just didn't let it deter them, you know, like they were not always given the open road. Most creatives aren't. Um, and they had to go into their reserves.
of self belief, even in the face of rejection, disappointment, uh, failures, any of this. And I just thought, I was like, how do you do that? Like, how do you do that? Because to me, everything was a blow, was either like a puffed up confidence or a blow. And so I was like, how do I get to that belief in myself?
And that's just been the journey that I've been on because To me, I thought for so long, the antidote to my self doubt was like, okay, achieve enough, get enough, become enough. Like, you know, the world tell you finally that you're good enough. And so you get like the followers, you get the attention, you get the opportunities, you get all the things.
And then you're like, Oh my God, what a disappointment that it doesn't do what you think it's going to do. And it's wonderful in its own way, but it's not a long lasting, um, you're just never going to feel doubt or question yourself ever again. So now I'm like, I embrace the doubt. I embrace myself doubt as a means of, okay, I'm doing a new thing.
Like, that's a scary thing to me is doing a new thing, or perhaps even like failing in public or having things not go the way that I expected. And people see it. Like that's so, that's hard for me. Um, And, uh, I like being in control and, but when you like being in control, sometimes you can control your environment too much that you stay very, very safe and you don't take risks.
So to me, it's like self belief is essentially being kind of fearless. Because when you are at the whims of your self doubt, oh my god, you just can't, there's, your life becomes so restricted. You live in a restricted state because you don't want anything to ever not go the way that you expect. So that's been the massive journey that I've been on, especially when like, you know, when you talk about the books that I've Had come out, which is such a lovely thing.
Um, it really made me dig deep though, of like believing in myself because. It's uh, you know, there's a lot of books out there. There's a lot of authors out there There's a lot of ways to compare There's it's unbelievable how many ways you can compare on so many different metrics and you have to just stay so centered in your belief and It is tricky to do so that's been my thing because I don't want my belief in myself to be like Like connected to book sales or something that just seems like You know, you've seen i've seen too many authors who they might have an amazing Success of a book and then the next one might not and then the next one is and then the next one It's like you really can't Put that all, all the eggs in that basket.
Um, so that's been, that's been the work and the self doubt I've really changed my relationship to it instead of letting it just rule my life for so long. Um, so it's, it's very cool. It's a. And the more that I talk about it, it's like such a sticky subject, because people don't really want to admit that they have doubt in themselves.
Like, you know, and the more that I talk about it, I find that people get very liberated in me discussing it, especially people who perceive me as the type of person now that would maybe not be feeling self doubt. Oh, she's, she's made it, you know, and it's like, yeah, but it still doesn't take away every feeling that, um, I could ever, you know, it doesn't mean that I now just float on a cloud of complete certainty.
Like, in fact, Any kind of success almost brings more uncertainty and it's more messy and scary. And, um, that was a, that was an interesting thing to, to recognize too. So it's been a journey. It's been a really interesting, interesting journey.
[00:12:00] Heather Lowe: Thank you for your honesty. I love it. I hear so much of what you're saying.
I relate to it. It's interesting because this journey of yours aligns exactly with my sober journey, which is just stop reaching outside yourself. For the cure and start going within. So it's, so our topics are different, but it's so similar. It's reaching for that outside affirmation versus cultivating something internally with yourself.
I'm wondering, when you're talking about your growing up years, let's say, and that you were a burnout student, you, I think you called yourself. Yeah. Were you bad behaved? Were you bored? Or were you, were you, were you acting out because you were bored? Or were you just there maybe not performing at your best because it didn't keep your attention?
[00:12:43] Jamie Varon: Definitely not performing at my best because it didn't keep my attention. And I was always like, why do I need to know this stuff? Like, why does any of this matter? I know, like, I don't know, formula.
[00:12:55] Heather Lowe: It doesn't.
[00:12:56] Jamie Varon: Yeah, I know. And I think that I was, I was definitely. Too smart for my own good at that point and like nobody I think because education wasn't really valued in my um Like parents, I mean, it's not like it was devalued But it wasn't like something that they really put a lot of Which in some ways it's like some people will be like, Oh, I'm hope I wished my parents wouldn't put as much stock into it.
It's like, well, there's a con to that too, that, um, you know, no one took an interest or really seemed to notice that I was. I was smart and struggling and not being like I wasn't able to really express those parts of myself. Um, but I also had a ton of rebellion. I mean, I was definitely, uh, smoked and like, you know, cut school and got up to some stuff and college was a lot.
And, you know, I was not a. I had no interest in being like a good girl, like it wasn't even like a question. I was like, I don't want to be good. I want to experience life. I'm we'll go a little wild. Um, even that, like my parents were not strict. Like my, my parents divorced when I was two. And so, Oh, really?
Oh my gosh. That's a fundamental life experience. I actually don't think that I really understood how traumatizing that would be until I've been around my niece, who's two, and I'm like, I can't even imagine at her age, like my, so it's my older brother and my sister in law's, and Like if they broke up and she had to be wrenched from this, like familiarity, the routine, the comfort.
And like, I, they had the kind of, my parents had the kind of divorce where like, I was carted off from house to house. It was not like dad on the weekends, every other weekend, like they fought over us. And so it was like tense. It was. I was always missing somebody. I was never like with the person. I was never with all my people at once.
You know, you were homesick wherever you were. Exactly. That's exactly how it was. You're just homesick wherever you are because you And you don't, you don't have the cognitive ability to really understand what's happening. So I, I actually, I had, I gave myself so much more compassion after seeing my niece now and, and being so close to her, she, she lives, you know, they live really close.
So I see her all the time and I'm like, Oh my God, I couldn't even imagine,
[00:15:51] Heather Lowe: can't imagine. You see little you. Yeah. Like you
[00:15:54] Jamie Varon: were a
[00:15:54] Heather Lowe: baby.
[00:15:55] Jamie Varon: Little you like, it's you don't know and you're, and you're like a person then like you're not, you know, I always assume, I'm like, I was like a baby. I don't know. You know?
I just grew up like this. I, this was all I had ever known, but it's like no 2-year-old me knew something like, oh, for sure. You know? So, anyway, that's a strange thing. What, how did it affect you? I
[00:16:15] Heather Lowe: mean, do you, it was kind of like the best thing that ever happened to me. 'cause my dad wasn't around. Anyways, so my mom got to rise up and do all the things, go back to school, you know, it was like, but yeah, it's traumatic.
And I look, I have kids and they'll, and I have two daughters and they'll be in between my husband and I, and I never had that. Like your mom and your dad, both loving on you at the same time. You know what I mean? I know they're part of that
[00:16:40] Jamie Varon: unit. Exactly. I mean, I never have that. I never understood what that would be like.
I remember cause my mom and my dad are like, Friends now we can all, we're all good. We sometimes we'll spend like Thanksgiving all together and stuff. And, um, I remember a few years ago I was playing Scrabble with my mom and my dad, like just us. Yeah. You had that moment. Yeah. And I was like, this is weird.
Like, and I could tell like, they're so removed from each other that I can't ever imagine them being together. But in that moment I was like, Oh, we're like a family. You had that feeling. Yeah. And so. So anyway, I think, um, I think like some divorce kids who are being shipped off from house to house and it's not a divorce where then you're with one, like a single parent.
Um, I felt very through therapy come to find, I felt very neglected.
[00:17:39] Heather Lowe: You
[00:17:40] Jamie Varon: know, there's no, like, stability, and so it's just this, you know, constant not knowing where I am, nobody's taking any interest in what I'm doing, there's just not enough time, you know, it's like, I'm two days here, and then I have to go to a different house for three days, and then I'm back to this house, and then, you know, And then my, my mom got remarried pretty soon after and then had another child who's my brother.
And, um, so they had their own little like family and, you know, I just got remarried and have my brother too. Right. Oh my gosh. That's funny. Oh my God. Wow. Well, no wonder we're like connected. You
[00:18:29] Heather Lowe: felt neglected, but you were wanted. They were fighting over you. You were wanted in both places. But also they were distracted.
No one was paying attention to you. They were, um, they needed time but you were kind of getting lost in the shuffle, it sounds like, or they didn't have the capacity to be Tending to your inner emotional needs or what is coming out is like you were a creative to start, right? Like you didn't fit the box or fit the mold and your ideas were already different and rebellious.
And that school life was the thing, the structure and the thing you had to shine. And you didn't because you weren't interested in it.
[00:19:08] Jamie Varon: Well, yeah, and, you know, my mom tells this story, which is always just like one of our little things, is that when I was in elementary school, they wanted to put me in like the gifted program, they accepted me, and she, without even like talking to me, um, said no, because she didn't want me to be different.
And I'm like, but I wanted to be different. You know, like I, I want, I felt apart.
[00:19:37] Heather Lowe: Oh, you know, you already were
[00:19:40] Jamie Varon: exactly. So it's like, you could have put me somewhere that that would have actually, we're all different. Yeah. Like, yeah. And I would be like with like minded people instead of feeling like, why don't I fit in?
Why can't I be like everyone else? This has been a pervasive feeling throughout my life. So it's very interesting that, you know, I don't, I don't hold anything against my mom. She was doing what she thought was best. And, but that's another, um, you know, example of like not being really tuned in. And so if you're with me all the time, you know, it would be, clear that I would need that stimulation.
Um, so yeah, it was just, uh, very interesting how that I did start to rebel because I was just like, I'm like bored, you know, I'm not, I'm not, and I'm too, I'm, I'm like too aware, you know, I was just like, None of this matters. My grades don't matter. This is just like, I just don't know how I knew all of that, but I did.
So, um, you know, it was, uh, it was, it was tough in that sense because it felt like nobody was really listening to me, um, and paying any attention. So it's like, yeah, they were fighting over me, but it wasn't like that meant I was getting a lot of focused attention. Cause also like. My mom had my little brother who she put a lot of attention on because he was always sad that my older brother and I weren't there.
She didn't want him to feel like an only child. And then my dad was really obsessed with my older brother and Wanted him to play baseball. My dad's obsessed with baseball. And so I had to like go to baseball games and, you know, like no one ever did anything I wanted to do. Yeah. And I was like, you're so long and dirty talk about boring, but you know, like as a kid, you're trying to make the most of it and like, please your parents.
And. You know, so everything by the, I will say though, by the time I got to college, I was like, get me out of here. Let me be my own person. Like I, I blossomed for sure in a lot of ways. Like I started to really, but like I said, because of that, I'd been so starved for like attention and acknowledgement that it then getting all this attention in college from like, the professors and you know, I was finally doing the things that I wanted to do and I joined like these extracurricular activities and they were like, Oh my God, you're so impressive.
And we want you at this job and this job and this job. And I was like, finally, but then it was like, now all your self worth
[00:22:35] Heather Lowe: is
[00:22:35] Jamie Varon: on how impressive. you can be and how smart you are and how much you can achieve. And it was like, didn't untangle that for a while, you know?
[00:22:46] Heather Lowe: Yeah. To your mom's credit, there's that like meme that says like, whoever was in the gifted and talented program, like, how are you doing now?
You're like high achieving, people pleasing, perfectionism, like anxiety is like off the charts. Right. But you kind of got that experience in college then. Like I am gifted and talented. I am different and it's beautiful. It makes me special. It makes me. You know, whatever, sitting at the top of the pyramid, whatever way that is, right?
I have to have this feels good. I have to have this. I have to have, this is proving my worth.
[00:23:20] Jamie Varon: Yeah. It was the first time that I felt like I was my own person. And I wasn't like, cause my older brother, I was, Little Varin in high school, you know, I was his sister and, um, there you were in the shadow. Yeah.
Yeah. It was very, and like, there came a time where his friends became friends with my friends. And so it was like, I'm really not my own. Like I don't know what my interests are even, you know, I mean, it might be baseball,
it's not baseball. I was like, Oh, I don't, I like, I went to college. I remember and I was like, I don't care about baseball at all. Like I finally was able to be like, I don't care about the same bands. Like I don't care about being this person. I don't care about this. It was, it was great in that
[00:24:19] Heather Lowe: sense. Yeah.
And you were your own person under not somebody else's shadow or little sister. Yeah. It's interesting what you said about when you bring up self doubt, like maybe that makes some people bristle or they're uncomfortable with that. Because my first thought is like, Definitely. That's me. Since as far as I can remember, just my natural inherent thought is like, I am wrong.
I'm bad and I'm wrong. And I shouldn't be feeling the way I'm feeling. I should be some other way. Somebody else is doing it better than me. I'm not good enough. All of the enough, right, in some way like that is just for me sounds like the most natural, regular way of being. And I don't know why that I don't know if it's women, especially for women, if men are maybe raised in a different way that they are think they're inherently right, or good.
And we're not if that's a female thing or some other thing. And my mother adored me, I was the light of her world. Light, you know, I was just everything. I was special and loved and adored. And still, I just felt like I was bad and wrong, even though I was a good girl, you know, saying you pushed against that.
So you just had that too. Since as far as you can remember,
[00:25:36] Jamie Varon: yeah, I think it has to come from like patriarchal. I mean, it's, if you even, all it takes is like, you have to look back just a couple decades. And it's like, women were told they can't even function in work environments. Right. You know? Can't have a bank account. Can't. Yeah. Yeah. Like, we can't trust you with anything.
Right. Then there was, you know, I remember my mom telling me that like, even her mom, like, it was such a, her, my grandfather was a very abusive alcoholic. And it was like, a huge deal for her to leave him. You know, and like actually go and have any kind of career and make her own money. And so, you know, that's all my
[00:26:25] Heather Lowe: grandma is still alive, you know?
And it's incredible that she did, because I think there's many people from that generation that didn't, because they couldn't, they couldn't see a way out. They couldn't be a single mom. They couldn't have a bank account. They couldn't, you know, so that's why it's amazing that my mom did, you know, even because her mom wouldn't have been able to do that.
[00:26:45] Jamie Varon: Exactly. And so it's like, sometimes I think we kind of forget. It's very easy to forget because we've like, this is the world now, you know, but like, this has not been what it's like, even from generations that are still alive. Like, it's not like, Oh, yes, you know, the 1800s. That was history. Yeah. Yeah, like.
This was, people are alive now that lived in a completely different world of what it meant to be a woman, what possibilities were available to them, all these things that just now we kind of maybe take them for granted. I know I do sometimes, and I always have to pull it. That's why like I wrote Radically Content was because I felt like so many self help books were like kind of blaming.
The person like, Oh, what's your, you know, like you're, it's all on you that you like feel self doubt or that it's like, actually open a magazine that we used to read casually for entertainment. And it was like, shame on you. Shame on you. You're the worst. You're the worst. Can't you get this together? What's wrong with you?
I have tips to get guys to look at you. Exactly. Or even just look at like what we used to consume about female celebrities. I mean, we, unfortunately, we do, it, something doesn't have to happen to us. This is something that I've had to really come to terms with. It doesn't have to happen to me for me to know that it happens.
[00:28:15] Heather Lowe: Right.
[00:28:15] Jamie Varon: And so if like every female celebrity is wrong or doing something wrong or they have, they're being overly criticized. I'm going to say I'm going to be overly criticized, so I need to control my behavior to figure out how to be different, how to not be wrong, how to not be broken. And I think the thing that why I said that talking about self doubt, I didn't think a lot of people were for so long is because it's such a private shame.
And people don't like to talk about shame, you know, cause it's, you not only feel shame, but then you feel shame for feeling shame. Right. And then you're not
[00:28:55] Heather Lowe: supposed to feel that way. So that's also wrong. Exactly. Right. Like, that's on you. Go fix you. Yeah. Exactly. I didn't know what to call it because I'm like, it's not, I guess I would say self help genre, but also it's not, it didn't feel to me like, here's the 10 steps to self improvement, right?
If you do these things, you know, you'll be better. And who's on the cover of that magazine, your worth is the way you look. And if you're this shape and this size, and you have this hair and this color, then you are valuable. And if you're not that. You better read those five tips on how to get a guy's attention because if you're not on the cover, you know, are you valuable?
[00:29:39] Jamie Varon: What is your value? Exactly. I mean, that's a, that's another thing. I mean, we can never understate how much Focus and fixation there is on how we look as women and every it's either you get points for certain things or points against you and there is a point system because there used to be like lest we forget that facebook started it because it was a hot or not hot or not yeah rank women on college campuses Because our value is in our looks, right?
Yes, exactly. And so, you know, that's a big part of it. I feel, I feel a little strange that that has, it's like almost like in 2024 we're like forgetting all of that. Or like, we're going, instead of saying like, you know what? This is a real thing. There's beauty standards. It's almost like people maybe post lockdown pandemic went, well, there's beauty standards.
So I'm just going to do whatever I can to hit them. Like I'm going to do, and I don't blame people because you have one life. Maybe it'll make your life easier. And God knows we might want to make our lives easier right now. You know? And I think that we've gone in that direction of like, okay, I'm just going to conform to the beauty standards because I want to make my life easier and I will, like, I don't, I get it.
There's pressure. My body looks this way. It'll fix my mental health is the hope, probably, right? And if I look good on TikTok, or if I have the face that is supposedly the ideal face for TikTok, and I do my makeup the right way that they, the girlies on TikTok tell me to do it, if I wear the exact clothes, exact clothes that I'm supposed to be wearing, and I look the exact way, Then I'll be okay.
And that'll
[00:31:34] Heather Lowe: prove I'm good. That'll prove I'm worthy. Cause look at me. Right. Right. But it's not working. It doesn't work. So that was your journey, you know? So you did get the affirmation in college. And then, I mean, you're a writer, which obviously is insane, because who would want to be a writer? It's like the craziest thing you could do is to put yourself under that, make yourself write, and then publish.
I mean, what the heck? And
[00:32:08] Jamie Varon: be subjected to like, opinions and Yeah, it's, uh, I've always felt that that was a cruel joke for sure, and I've tried designer
[00:32:20] Heather Lowe: before you were a writer. I mean, you were okay. Let's talk to me about your like writing, publishing journey to that start putting it on paper and saying it out loud and then letting other people see that.
And then defining yourself by that as well. A
[00:32:35] Jamie Varon: lot of starts and stops. I've always wanted to be a writer, but I've always been very afraid of both the financial probabilities and the, um, you know, the, this, the opportunity, if it was there, if I was good enough, all the things. So it all kind of coalesced into, I'm going to take a safer route.
And I started doing design work because people just started seeing my designs and saying, Do you do designs for people? And I was like, okay, sure. Um, so I, you know, kind of fell into it a little, um, accidentally back in like 2009. And then I just ended up designing for like a long time. I did websites branding, but I always wanted to write always was kind of, it was always there.
Like I was either thinking about writing, writing, Being upset that I wasn't writing, getting mad at myself for not writing. Like it was always a thing.
[00:33:37] Heather Lowe: Hijacking your whole head space. But were you writing, writing journals or were you writing books? Were you starting and stopping with different writing projects?
It was all different.
[00:33:47] Jamie Varon: For a while I was blogging, like for a long time I had a blog and then I would change the blog and I wouldn't want to do the blog. And, um, then. social media. Then I had a job where I was a full time writer for about a year at Thought Catalog. And then I thought, that's it. I'm going to be a writer now.
That was back in like 2015. And I thought, that's my career. I'm going to do it. And then I did some freelance writing and then it was just so much stress. Trying to write on command and then I still wasn't writing books and so I went back to design And then took a year off writing and told myself i'm not gonna write until I can Do it with joy again.
Like I was like, that's it. I'm done pressuring myself like and then All of a sudden it all came back. And then I started, I would say about 2019 is when I was like, okay, I want to get, I want to get a book out there. And then of course I didn't have a book come out until 2022 because. Things don't happen instantaneously.
I had to get my rejections out of the way and everything, but then I got my first book deal and Weirdly enough it the person who gave me the book deal came to me, which is very very rare Um, so that was really interesting. And then I, I don't know, I think I just started focusing on being consistent and I had enough proof in the past that like, not writing was not a choice for me.
It caused me. It causes me too much anguish, you know, it's like a calling. I can't stop it. You know, and I've tried to not do it. I've tried probably everything I could think of to not do it. And to me, I'm like, okay, it's just easier and better when I'm accepting that I want to write and following where I'm meant to be.
And cause it's a very, Sort of spiritual experience for me because it feels like I'm channeling. I don't know where it comes from. I Can't even outline like a novel if I outline it. It's already dead. Like I can't do it I'll be veering off in chapter one It's just such a weird experience for me of like I don't know How I get to the finish line with these novels or with these books, but I do
[00:36:15] Heather Lowe: So it's just me.
I love this. I love it. I love it so much. Cause I feel like I have it too. So I have to put it into practice, but I hear what you're saying. And I know it that's very inconvenient thing. This calling, but you have to do it. And I think Anne Lamont would say like, you have to stop not writing, right? The way to write is to stop not writing.
And we so much resistance comes in, but it sounds like you made a decision then in like 2019 to write and to believe in yourself as a writer and not a writer as a job title for somebody else, but a writer that was going to write and publish something herself.
[00:36:53] Jamie Varon: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, well, not really publish myself because, well, I was thinking about it as like self publishing for a little bit, but I mean, get it published, get it out there.
Yeah. Get it.
[00:37:08] Heather Lowe: Like, have it be a public. Yes. Yes. Yes. This is a private document.
[00:37:14] Jamie Varon: Oh yes. That's, I understand what you mean. Um, yes, I, well, it, Oh, I always wanted to, but I, I didn't feel that I was capable of it. And I, you know, for me, what's been hard, even though it sounds like it's a good thing, I've had a lot of encouragement, and me not being able to, like, fulfill this dream was so painful, even though I was like, people believe in me!
Like, I almost feel like I might have had more fire if I was, like, up against Someone be you can't do this and I was like now they're expecting something
[00:37:55] Heather Lowe: good. I mean, yeah, right?
[00:37:57] Jamie Varon: Yeah, I
[00:37:58] Heather Lowe: think I'm good Yeah, I'm like, no, it's a shitty first draft.
[00:38:02] Jamie Varon: Yeah, I'm like And then you sit down you're like, I'm a good writer and then you sit down and it's like the spot is blue and you're like Oh my god,
[00:38:10] Heather Lowe: that's crap.
I know
[00:38:12] Jamie Varon: It's horrible. Yeah. I would never read this
[00:38:15] Heather Lowe: book.
[00:38:15] Jamie Varon: Yeah. But I just, I think an eight year old could write this. Yeah, exactly. I'm like, I wrote better things when I was five, but okay. You know, it's like horrible. Um, but I guess where I got to was like, I'm, it's just better to have things on the page.
Than to think about it. Like I, I'm just, I got so sick of one day, one day I'll do this one day. And it was like, there's never gonna be a perfect time. Like, I'm never ever gonna have a trust fund.
[00:38:49] Heather Lowe: Yeah. I'm never
[00:38:50] Jamie Varon: ever gonna feel like, so your brother
[00:38:52] Heather Lowe: didn't, didn't become a baseball star No, unfortunately.
And fund the whole family. Shoot. I'm so sorry.
[00:38:59] Jamie Varon: I am unfunded. I'm unfunded. Okay. I never had any, like I had. You know, just, I've had to do it all pretty much myself. And so it's been, uh, you know, there's like such a financial reality, especially that I, I feel like people ignore a lot or they, or they like talk about it too much.
And I'm like, okay, I, I'm, I'm aware that there's a reality here, but at the same time, I, I just feel called to it. And it's, it's so such a strong calling that, You know, came to me so many years ago, like that. I just have to, I'll regret it if I don't give it 100%. And so that's the big reason why my focus has been on the self belief because with self belief, you can't really take like what's currently happening to heart.
You have to have like a bigger vision and any creative work you do. It's going to take some buildup time and you never know. There's, there's so much luck at play. It's like, especially in publishing. I mean, some people, their first book is a rocket launch. Some people it's like their 15th book. It is.
There's no predictability with it. Even I, I mean, I follow publishing industry so much and even like the books that they put all their money into, they're like major deals. It's a big thing. I see them not some do well, some don't. Right now we're in a situation where a lot of indie books are getting massive amounts of attention because And I'm sure, and I know in publishing people are like, what do we do?
Like they rejected that book and now it's, you know, it's a crap shoot basically. It's a crap shoot. And so because of that it's almost kind of freeing because you're like, you just never know. So you have to just, the only way to be out of the game is to take yourself out of it. And so you just got to keep moving forward.
And. You know, you just never know when it'll be the moment and then you just got to be ready. Like, uh, I mean, I think that's a hard, I, my, so my brother didn't end up going into baseball, but he is a music producer here in LA. Um, yeah, that's more enjoyable to, to watch him in his hobby. I imagine. Yes, exactly.
I love the music he does. So it's like definitely a better thing than me sitting watching baseball. Um, but. He, um, you know, I follow the music industry a lot too, because. Of him and just because I'm fascinated by creative industries and especially creative industries where there's like the meeting of the art and the um, Consumer like how does it all work?
And you know, there's just so many different ways for people to take off There's such a luck factor involved. Um, especially with especially with music and um, I feel like I kind of lost my train of thought for a second but I just I think with all of this you have to have That vision and that's the thing that I've been working on the most is like really having this like ironclad vision and not letting myself get discouraged by like current how things are going currently.
Um, and like keep my eye on longevity, consistency. Like, ultimately, I've felt what it feels like to not honor this calling, and it's not good. But then, it's like, also hard when you do honor the calling, but I'm like, which hard do I want to take? Like one really hurts, where I don't honor it. The other one feels a lot better.
Um, so it's always this, uh, this push and pull and that, you know, it's, it's, it's That self belief is kind of the only thing that it gives me something to focus on outside of, well, what's happening right now? Am I good enough? Is it working? Is it working? And it's like, you're waiting months for things to happen.
Those are long months. If you're just like, is it working? Is it working? Is it working? Is it working yet?
[00:43:18] Heather Lowe: Am I there? Have I arrived? I love this as a life coach. I love what you said about like the taking action is less excruciating than not taking action. so much. Yeah. So just the act of acting, of doing something, of writing crap, feels better than thinking about writing something that you're not writing.
So it's the doing, and I love to take people from thinking about something to actually doing something. You know, from listening to a podcast about sobriety to trying to go today without a drink. You learn by doing, not by like passively witnessing things. Those are great helpers and wonderful things for osmosis to have in your mind and great tools, but you actually learn by doing.
So you actually become a better writer by writing, right? By putting words on paper. And sometimes they're good and sometimes there's not. And there's a lot of editing involved. I know. So, um, to start is to start and you've done that. I love that. And to not do it as an unlived life for you. Yeah, leaving something too big on the table that you was a calling.
So you almost have no choice. You have to, you have to do it. And now you've committed to doing it. I love that. The other thing I'm hearing is like, there is a little bit of like pound the stone, right? Like do it, keep doing it. And you have to like the process somehow. And not just the results, because I'm sure you hit a bestseller list.
And that doesn't let that feeling and that. Award or achievement doesn't last all that long. Yeah, but writing the book takes a lot longer than launch day, right, which is over a second.
[00:44:56] Jamie Varon: This is something I think about a lot because, um, to remind myself that the result is. a tiny blip compared to the act of doing and because i'm the same i for a long time i existed in hesitancy and stagnancy and okay wait i gotta be ready i gotta be more ready and when i started forcing myself to take action consistently that whole a whole world opened up to me where i was oh my god So you don't have to be ready.
You just do it. Yes,
[00:45:32] Heather Lowe: nobody's ready before you're ready. But I always say, before you're ready, nobody's ready. And you don't have to get to a certain point before you make a complimentary call with me, let's say. Call me in the middle of your mess. That's when you need some help. We can start with that.
Someone's like, I'm going on vacation. I don't want to drink. I, you know, I think I'm on vacation. Awesome. Call me anyways. Let's go ahead and get started with something. You know, you might not quit drinking today. That's okay.
[00:45:58] Jamie Varon: Well, I think people really think that because maybe movies, like it's all about these massive, uh, like rock bottom moments and your whole life happily ever after it all changes.
And it's like, man, real life. Is so much slower than that. Like, and the thing is, is that that's what I, I mean, you know, you took my course, like there's so many things that I talk about in that of like, you do one small thing a few times, you're already out of muck and it takes three days. It's not, you have, people will look at it and go, well, how am I going to like write a book or start this or not drink if I, how am I going to do that for a year?
And it's like, you only got to do it right now. Right. One word on paper. Now you have, now
[00:46:47] Heather Lowe: you have one more
[00:46:48] Jamie Varon: word than you
[00:46:48] Heather Lowe: did before you
[00:46:49] Jamie Varon: just did that. That's, that's what, that's what got me writing was I was like, well, actually what got me writing was in 2018, I had not been writing. And even when I had a full time writing job, writing consistently was so hard for me.
I was in such, I didn't have the right mindset for it. So every single day I was like, I would spend almost seven hours of the day, so mad that I wasn't writing. And then write something in like 20 minutes, right at the end, because I was like, And so what really got me into writing and thinking, because I, I had to let go of this advice of like writers write every day, it's like, okay, well, I'm not good.
That's too much pressure on me. So what really got me back into it was in 2018, I started writing a newsletter every Friday. And I made this the most, like, glorious time of the week. Like, at the time I was actually in Europe, so it was really, really lovely. But it was like It really was glorious. It was glorious, but I, like, Okay, I'll go get like a coffee.
I'll go to a coffee shop. I'll dress up cute I'll do all these things like I wanted to make it so ceremonial so um devotional And then when I got came back to america same thing. It was like very devotional. I was very committed to it and I started to see that like it doesn't need to be seven days a week full on.
It can be as simple as like I can now write a whole novel on deadline with a major publishing house because in 2018 I realized I could write every every Friday.
[00:48:31] Heather Lowe: I love that. So huge lesson, huge life lesson right there. Just do the thing for me to write takes a half an hour of filling my coffee and sitting back down and switching the laundry and sitting back down and petting my dog and remembering something and making a note on my phone and oops, now I'm on social media for a half an hour and then 20 minutes of writing follows.
[00:48:52] Jamie Varon: That's the clearing the cobwebs. It's like, it's okay. But I think what happens is people They think like, okay, for like, if I don't want to go on a walk, then that means I shouldn't go on the walk. And it's like, no, go on the walk within two minutes. You'll be like, Oh, I'm so glad you went on this walk. Yes.
Yes. It's just weird how much we, we buy into our own, like tantrums that were, it's like, of course we resistance to what's good for us or what we actually want. Right. We don't want to take effort. It's all effort. It's like, uh, I'd just rather not. And like, the thing is, is that I've, I noticed in my own life that like, when I start buying into my excuses and I don't want to take effort, I get more and more unhappy, more and more miserable, more and more frustrated.
And then when I start putting back in the effort, it's like, everything becomes. more, the more effort you take, the more effort that you can give. I don't know. It's, it's like, if you start your day, like the way that you want to start it and you're keeping promises to yourself, you just keep keeping the promises to yourself.
[00:50:16] Heather Lowe: You're
[00:50:16] Jamie Varon: not as like, you can't buy into those excuses. And I let myself off because I'm like a nice person to myself. For the most part, I would let myself off the hook way too much. And I was like, but I'm letting myself off the hook to an extent that like, I'm not happy. And so it was very, um, it was, it was a bizarre thing to kind of realize how many, how much resistance I was giving myself, how much I resist things that are good for me.
Um, how much I let those excuses, um, pile up. And then now I just see, I'm like, I just don't see any value in them much anymore. Um, so it's become like things that used to be very, very hard, don't feel as hard anymore,
[00:51:04] Heather Lowe: and you're getting faster because motivation comes action. We forget that. We think we're gonna wanna go for a walk before we put our shoes on.
Well, we don't , but like you said, I know, even if you like it.
[00:51:16] Jamie Varon: Yeah. Even if you tell yourself, you're like, I like it. It's still, it's just, we are, I wish I, and there's probably some biological reason that someone has already discovered, but like just the way that we want to exist in like an ease state.
[00:51:35] Heather Lowe: Yeah.
[00:51:36] Jamie Varon: And yet putting in effort is so good. Like I almost feel like. The lockdown sort of gave me a little bit too much. I don't know. It's like, you know, I'm not a workaholic by any means, but I know that when I'm present and engaged and working and, you know, efforting and cooking and doing the things, I'm happier.
I'm just happier when I'm on my routine and I'm like putting in the work. And yet, I don't know. I think there's a lot of. Not doing, like, I mean, just the fact that, not to shade anyone, because I've done my share of being on the couch, but it's like, we've got, we're in this, like, time where everybody's talking about bedrotting.
Yeah. And
[00:52:25] Heather Lowe: rotting on
[00:52:26] Jamie Varon: the couch, and I'm like, and then, what, what gets me is like, in the same breath, it'll be like, but I don't know why I'm so depressed.
[00:52:36] Heather Lowe: Right.
[00:52:37] Jamie Varon: It's like, I think it's because you're rotting in bed.
[00:52:43] Heather Lowe: Like a little bit. There's also things. Right. It's like, did you have fresh air? Did you move your body?
Did you eat something healthy? Have you connected with a friend? Maybe you need a shower. I mean, a shower can cure a lot of things.
[00:52:59] Jamie Varon: Right. And like, I just don't, I think sometimes Especially in the mental health conversations, which like, I do not have perfect mental health. I will be the first to say that.
But there's also, I have to run through that list because I, it won't cure everything doing those things and caring for myself, but I, but also making an excuse that I can't do those things. or there's something preventing me from doing those things is, is definitely far worse for my mental health. And then seeing how I feel when I do take that time, like there, unfortunately, I've really had to come to the conclusion that like, I cannot be on autopilot and just be okay.
I have to invest into myself and my care. Otherwise, My brain goes to the worst anxiety. I do slip into depression. It is not like smooth sailing. Some people that they just, they don't have that. They don't have it. And so for me, I, a few days of being too Like chill and flexible. Yeah, sedentary. I'm like, I'm like, what's wrong with me?
Like, why do I feel this way? Why is the world ending? And I'm like, Oh, go for a walk, Jamie. Like
[00:54:24] Heather Lowe: exactly
[00:54:25] Jamie Varon: something like take, take some action. We You know,
[00:54:30] Heather Lowe: um, energy and talk about confidence or self belief, like doing those things, keeps your promises to yourself, to doing the things, even though you don't feel like it, you don't want to pushing out of your comfort zone to do something you kind of don't want to do.
It's like, says I'm showing up for myself. It's another way to say, I trust you. I keep my promises to you. You know, you are worthy of time and space and action and energy and all those things too.
[00:54:57] Jamie Varon: Exactly. I mean, I think about it, you know. I think about my relationship with myself a lot, you know, because it's as any relationship, you can't just put it on, just let it sail, you know, put in effort.
And I think, you know, there was a time where I think these conversations were happening more. Um, but now I don't know, we're in a weird where I think we're in a weird time with mental health of where the conversation is. how we're talking about it, how we're talking about caring for ourselves. It's like people get offended very easily about certain things that to me are like benign statements.
I think we're excusing a lot. I think we're disconnected from people a lot. We're disconnected from like simple things like nature and being off these things. For a while, you know, like, unfortunately, we're just, uh, there's some things that I'm just like, these are a little bit simpler actions, because exactly what you said, like, As much as we, it's like, I'll see people be like, I don't feel confident, but they're also like bedrotting or not keeping those promises.
And it's like, you really, it's very hard to think your way into confidence because, um, I started to even recognize I could have self belief when I started showing up for myself and keeping my promises. And I was like, Oh, I can actually, I could actually create. And, and like this energy for myself, which is what, and I am in control of my actions for the most part.
So it's like, I can one, one action taken when I have resistance gives me like all it's, it's like more momentum in the direction of like, I'm confident I can believe in myself. I can do things, I can do the hard things. I think like we're in a time of perhaps. Too much thinking too much consuming. Yeah, and not enough doing like for sure
[00:57:17] Heather Lowe: Yeah, you know Doing and that means Also paying attention to not how does it look, but how does it feel in my body versus how am I going to post this?
How am I going to make this look right? Versus how does it feel within me recognizing that and the action. I love it. We learn by doing and also then that means Failure. It means we're, I hope if you're not feeling you're not trying hard enough, probably, right? Like you should, that's how we learn, you know, we can learn by failure.
So you should get rejected. That's, that's part of the process, right? Trust the process. Not everybody loved that book on first round or whatever. Good. Go again, go again, go again. You have this relentless belief in yourself that I'm going to get this book published. This book is good. It's my words. And it needs to get out into the people that need to read it.
I'm not gonna stop at, I'm not gonna stop and crumble at one little no. I'm gonna keep pushing, right?
[00:58:16] Jamie Varon: I think that's the, that's everything, because if you don't have that grit, I mean, and if you view failure as like a failure of yourself, I mean, it's just impossible to get anywhere. Like, to me, I love experimenting, because, you know, it's, I, uh, there's, I have like a million ideas all the time.
I think most people who have any creativity, they do too, you know? Um, I love finding out that I can take one thing out of my brain that I no longer need to think about anymore. Okay. I experimented. I saw that idea through. It happened this summer actually was something that I was going to do. It was very, we were all on board.
I was going to partner with someone. It was going to happen. And then it, it like dissipated. And I was like, okay, now I can take that out. Now I don't have to think about that. And that's great because I think if you are constantly in the thinking about things mode, you're not getting any useful information, obviously, because everything.
When you don't experiment, like everything sounds like a great idea in your head, or you think it's going to be so much easier than it is. Like, I finally started writing novels essentially because I was like, I need to get this out of my head. Like, what if I don't even like doing it? Right. What if I hate it?
What if I find that writing a novel is so torturous that I never want to do it, then I don't have to think about doing this anymore. And I can just read people's novels. Because right now I'm not enjoying anyone's novels because I'm jealous that they wrote and I'm not writing my own so I'm not even enjoying that.
And what happened was I did write a novel. It will never see the light of day. I call it my novel zero. And it proved to me and showed me, I was like, when I, when I got rejections for that and when I read it back and I was like, Jamie, this is not good. There's no scenes. Like there's scenes that go by with no dialogue.
Jamie, come on, we need, we need to work on this. And all I felt was, I want to be really good at this. Man, I have like that fire. I'm like, okay, I'll read the books. I'll read the craft. I'll, I'll figure out how to like put story together. I'll, I'll read about dialogue. I'll, I'll read books and then really notice this time what's working, what's not.
[01:00:43] Heather Lowe: And
[01:00:43] Jamie Varon: that fire was what propelled me. And I was like, I would never have known that.
[01:00:50] Heather Lowe: And you
[01:00:50] Jamie Varon: can't know that until you do it.
[01:00:53] Heather Lowe: And yet
[01:00:54] Jamie Varon: we think we're going to know when we have it all in our head. And it's like, our thinking is so inaccurate,
[01:01:01] Heather Lowe: right?
[01:01:02] Jamie Varon: My thinking, that's why we, it's like, okay, Hey, I'll start Monday.
It's like, because you're giving your Monday self way too much credit. Totally. And try,
[01:01:12] Heather Lowe: try. It's not the trying that gets you there. It's the trying again and again and again. You know, you're not, it's not a one and done for most people. I know. I think very few people go viral. Like most people have been pounding the stone for a long time or working on something for a long time.
But you now are where you want it to be where your past self wanted to be. So it's like you keep hitting the finish line or the summit of the mountain, or you've got the carrot. And then the carrot moves, you know, like when I did one book, but now you got to do another book. Now you have 10, 000 followers.
Now you need a hundred thousand. I got a hundred thousand. You need a gazillion, right? And it's never enough. We know that like basically, right? So how have you settled in now with your self belief and your self doubt, where are you at on a truly to be, to find content, content in the here and now and what is versus That carrot that just keeps moving.
[01:02:07] Jamie Varon: I think where I'm at is I've now, and this isn't in radically content because I've had to learn this post radically content, because I wrote radically content thinking none of my dreams are coming true. I'm not, I wrote that as a sort of response to that. And then it was like, but everything was like.
This is weird. All these things started happening,
[01:02:29] Heather Lowe: but I'm the man of manifestation. The book was the manifestation of what was yet to come. Exactly. I was like, it's grippy, but this into the universe and then it'll happen.
[01:02:40] Jamie Varon: I had to learn a whole new thing. Um, but now I'm seeing I'm, I'm separating it. Like, okay, I have my work, like I have my work and yes, what I'm noticing is in my work because I'm an ambitious person and because I like challenges.
When I get something, it only makes me realize how much more I want to explore and create and experiment. And, you know, the more that you think you're capable and the more that you can take action without that hesitancy, the more opens up to you. So it's like, okay, there's my work. Now I have my worth over here that doesn't get to, it's like, this is unconditional.
[01:03:25] Heather Lowe: So
[01:03:25] Jamie Varon: I can fail. And that doesn't mean anything about who I am as a person. That's just information for my work. You know, having this separation where before it was, I didn't, I was all every, everything could blow down my confidence or keep my confidence. It's like, it was too enmeshed. And now I'm like, okay, I can separate these things because I am, I'm good where I am.
I do not believe that, like, I know for a fact that getting certain things is not going to bring me everlasting happiness. It's a really beautiful thing. I'm having, there's amazing things going on behind the scenes that I can't even speak about yet. But it's, it's dreams coming true. It's amazing. But it's also, I could have self doubt on the same day that those things are happening.
[01:04:16] Heather Lowe: And I'm
[01:04:16] Jamie Varon: like, okay, so that's the messiness of this of trying and caring, really caring so much and wanting things so much and not hedging and saying, well, I don't really want it. Or, okay, I'm like, I want, I want, and okay. But the not having doesn't get to tell me I'm not worthy, or it doesn't get to take my, um, foundation from myself, like there's a foundation there of if nothing happens, I'm going to be okay.
So now it's just, it's, it's fun, like it's,
[01:04:52] Heather Lowe: yeah,
[01:04:54] Jamie Varon: it's fun but it's also like, I can get really disappointed, and like I never used to let, I was so like, I'm scared of all of it, that it was like, I didn't let myself care enough. And then I wouldn't, you know, cause I was so scared, like,
[01:05:09] Heather Lowe: yeah,
[01:05:10] Jamie Varon: protection if I don't care that much.
Yeah. Like if I failed and I didn't really care that much, I didn't really give it my all. And now I'm like, because I have this foundation of like, I'm confident. I love myself. I trust myself. I'm not going to let that get I'm not gonna let that foundation get touched. That's just not it. Like my foundation is the radically content, right?
Yeah, it's solid. Then I now feel and see that I have more capacity to give a shit. Like over the summer, there was something that It actually ended up going through, but it, there was a moment where it seemed like I might have to let this go, which was like, unbelievable to me. And I let myself be so upset about it.
Like I was crying, I was crying about it. And it's not like a crier typically, I mean, to my own detriment, I love crying. I actually think it's so amazing. I wish I could cry more. It's one of my top talents to be honest. I'm jealous. I love it. Yeah, right. I know. But I let myself get really disappointed, you know, and I was like, okay, I'll be okay.
This doesn't go through, but I'll be devastated if it doesn't go through. But even if I'm devastated, I'll still be okay. And I like, to me, that was not a thing on the table for a very long time.
[01:06:40] Heather Lowe: Like,
[01:06:41] Jamie Varon: That would have been I am unworthy as a human being type of thing, like my world's ending and to be able to have that separation where I can have big audacious dreams, I can care a lot, I can be kind of obsessive about it, but I also, like, have a whole life.
outside of that. We're like, you know, I, I mean, I have like family, friends, husband, they don't care if I, like, they just want to see me happy, you know? So it's like, that to me is so important. And there's things outside of my work that I care about so much. I don't know. For me, that was very important because I think having my work and my self worth so enmeshed and having my achievements so enmeshed with my worthiness as a person and going up and down with that, um, you know, now when, when something, when I compare something happens, I'm like, it's just because you care.
That's okay. It's not a crime to care. You're allowed to care. You know, oh, yeah, you know, like I think sometimes especially in the spiritual world I get like, of course i'm I believe in like surrendering and letting go and that is very important. We can't be too grasping But at the same time I find that some of the stuff the detachment i'm like, I don't want to be detached I want to care, you know, like that's to me detachment is almost like empathetic and I I spent a lot of time not caring, you know, a little too disconnected.
And so now I'm like, it's okay. It's okay to like, it's okay to have anxiety waiting for an email that you want, you know, like
[01:08:31] Heather Lowe: a very appropriate response.
[01:08:32] Jamie Varon: Yeah. Like this is a normal thing. You can, it's okay to be impatient and want it. yesterday, but still be centered and grounded and present. Like it's,
[01:08:45] Heather Lowe: I don't know, I
[01:08:45] Jamie Varon: guess it's just like that feeling of being able to straddle multiple, what seems like conflicting emotions, but really it's just like being human
[01:08:56] Heather Lowe: and not.
[01:08:57] Jamie Varon: Not turning your emotions off or you know what you were saying about like when you stop drinking. It was like about Like not turning to something outside of yourself. Mm hmm like this. I'm like, it's okay if I get sad like it's okay if um, like I I think What you and I, similar themes is like, I'm not willing, I won't abandon myself this time, you know?
So it's like, okay, that means I can get super disappointed and heartbroken because I don't, I'm not going to hate myself because of that or take that on as my failing as a person, which is. It seems like, well, obviously, you know, it seems very simple, but it's like, I'll
[01:09:43] Heather Lowe: try it. Like I will be devastated because I cared and that's going to hurt a lot, but I'm not going to stop caring.
This is how I live my life out loud. This is how I express myself. This is how I feel. The whole spectrum of emotions, all of it. And that's what Sprite is for me. Just having the guts to live my life raw and unfiltered. And it means the ups and the downs, but I'm here for it all. So totally what I love what you said, though, first of all, like as an entrepreneur, myself too, and owning my own business, it's like, what if dish littering failed?
I will still be okay. It doesn't matter. That's not my only thing. That's not my only, even if it failed miserably, Hasn't yet. Thank goodness. There's people that want my help and I love to help. But even without that, it's not who I am. It's not the only piece of me. But with that, with you, with your writing, it's like, that's what makes you unstoppable now because you can throw yourself into it and you're with a hundred percent, not 50 percent because what if it doesn't go through and you're going to protect yourself saying, I didn't care.
You're going to throw your, you could fail if you must, but if not, you will fly. Right. Like. You can throw yourself in and you are creating your own flywheel of energy. It's to you from you with love. It's coming from yourself. You're more energized. You're taking greater risks. You're having greater, that's what is making you sore actually, versus playing small and every other way, because you're afraid you're still afraid.
And you're doing it anyways, right? You're going to give a fuck and you're going to keep going instead of protecting yourself saying, I don't really care, you know, and without any more achievements in the writing world, you are on solid ground with yourself. And that's how
[01:11:30] Jamie Varon: I feel. And I didn't have that before.
So I, you know, when main character energy came out, I felt like that threw me for such a loop last year. I was like, Oh, I'm not on solid ground. Like this is still determining worth. And I couldn't even see what was good happening. You know, like every, it felt like I had failed and, but I hadn't, it was so weird.
And I, I was like, okay, I'm aware there is something happening here that like, I am, I'm too business minded to know that this failed. Yeah. Yeah.
[01:12:11] Heather Lowe: Trick yourself with inner critic.
[01:12:14] Jamie Varon: No, and like, and then it was, but I noticed how much it was in mesh and, you know, gave myself a lot of grace. And now it feels like much solid more solid footing.
And it was interesting in the solid footing because for so long I thought, okay, To get to, to like, be able to do this work, I must be able to, I need to be able to detach and not care. And I thought that was where I was heading.
[01:12:41] Heather Lowe: And then
[01:12:42] Jamie Varon: it was like such a plot twist to show me that like, no, it means like you get to care and you get to experience something so fully.
But you don't have to make that mean anything about who you are, which is like. Mind blowing to me. Yeah, that's everything about who I am.
[01:13:01] Heather Lowe: Right, right. Oh, I love it. Thank you for sharing your journey with us. You inspire me so much. Um, even like following you on Instagram, knowing a writer, like you are where you want it to be your past self.
Like this is what You prayed for and you're a writer with published works, with excellent books, beautiful talent, a following of loyal readers, me included, like you wanted to be here and you're here. So I hope you can recognize and acknowledge that. Also, there's always the next thing. There's always another mountain to climb or something, but you have arrived in a lot of ways in one spot and it keeps.
building the blocks for what comes next for you, but
[01:13:42] Jamie Varon: I appreciate you saying that. That's so kind. It's I do. I really feel that I At least once a day, I'm like, I did it. Like I did, there were some times that I had done it, I was going to do it. So I'm like, okay, I did it. And so it's, it, it puts some things into perspective when I start to get kind of like too attached and too anxious that I'm like, kind of losing my focus.
I'm like, you already did it. So now we're just, Now we're just
[01:14:13] Heather Lowe: playing in the sandbox. Like it's okay. And have fun with it. Enjoy this process. I can't wait to see what comes next, of course. And thank you for your time and your wisdom and your, um, always your open heart and sharing and your ability to share like what you're working on.
And this self doubt, self belief. It's huge. I think it's in all of us. So I've learned from you today.
[01:14:35] Jamie Varon: Oh, thank you. Thank you for having me.
Thanks, Jamie.
and that's a wrap for today's episode of the Peripeteia podcast, a talk show for women.
! Don't forget to download my free ebook, The 12 Truths to change your life. Do it for the plot. \ , We'll see you in the next episode. Lots of love. .
