You Are Not Stuck 

Perip. Ep. 6 - Becky Vollmer - You Are Not Stuck

[00:00:00] Heather Lowe: Hi, babes. Listen up. You landed here at the Peripeteia podcast, and I'm so glad to have you enjoy these real girl talk conversations about the things that matter. From the ordinary to the extraordinary, and every plot twist in between, I welcome you. Life has a way of throwing us curveballs, and these are the stories of female resilience while navigating change with newfound purpose.

This is Peripatea. I'm so glad you're here. Let's embark on this journey together. Here we go! 

Hello, Becky Vollmer, my magical Stardust friend. I'm so happy to have you today. Hello, my darling. Everybody knows I'm in love with you. 

[00:00:48] Becky Vollmer: It's mutual. 

[00:00:49] Heather Lowe: Aw, thank you for your time. 

I'm really excited about our conversation because I know we have a lot to talk about. Um, first of all, the whole podcast is about, um, making a change or when life throws you a curve ball and there's literally nobody I know who's done a bigger turnaround than you.

You talk about it in your book, You Are Not Stuck. You changed your career, you changed your marriage, you got sober, like you literally did all the things in a very short period of time. So I think you are exactly the person to be on this podcast and talk about that., and also I know some things have changed since you've written the book.

And so I'm excited to kind of get a current update about where you are and all those things. But first, I'm going to start with how we know each other. , well, obviously I'm just a big fan of yours, but we have a mutual friend, Kate, who had this premonition of like Becky Vollmer, Chicago, Heather's going to interview her.

And we literally made it happen. And I felt like I got to be Oprah Winfrey on the couch with my favorite guests and it happened. And so I feel like we get to do that today. Um, and then we got to be together in person again. And sober in the city, Tampa, where you were the keynote speaker and I was the Friday night guest. What do we call us? I call myself the Friday night talent and you were the Saturday night talent. I was like the, the warmup band for that, for the real show. So that was so, so wonderful. 

[00:02:08] Becky Vollmer: I don't think I'd call you anybody's warmup band. You, um, you steal the show, man. You, you and Meg both did such a fabulous job that Friday night.

I, I was really happy to have been there and get to peek in on what you guys were up to. Cause it really. It was the perfect way to start a sober women's weekend. Um, just with your, both of your, your light and your insight and your energy. And you guys really got that whole group, engaged and excited and fired up.

And so you, you absolutely set the stage. That was fun. 

[00:02:44] Heather Lowe: Thank you. I know. 

And then we got an iconic picture of me kissing you in the pool. So, so I'm sure I'll share that along with this podcast. But tell me, you. You recently celebrated a milestone birthday. 

[00:02:59] Becky Vollmer: I did. I did.

[00:03:01] Heather Lowe: Tell us about that. 

[00:03:02] Becky Vollmer: An

octogenarian, that's somebody who's in their 80s, and a septogenarian is somebody who's in their 70s. And I had no idea what you would call somebody who's in their 50s. Um, and it's synqua, synquagenarian. No, wait, synqua or kinkua? Synqua. 

[00:03:20] Heather Lowe: Cinco, cinco, cinco, seis

, Okay.

[00:03:23] Becky Vollmer: Yeah, I got my AARP card literally in the mail the day of my birthday. And I really, I thought that was a myth. And so to see that actually pop up in my, in my mailbox was It was rather shocking, and it made it official. So, yeah, I didn't think I was going to have any problem with 50.

And I wouldn't say that I have any problem with it, uh, at all. But I would say it's made me more reflective and, you know, kind of curious about what is it have I learned? Over these years, what all do I still have to learn over these years to come? How do I prioritize what what I need to learn first and fastest and, you know, thinking even more about what kind of, I don't know, what can I, What can I contribute?

What can I leave behind for people to pick up, 

[00:04:22] Heather Lowe: Legacy ! 

It starts to turn into a legacy. 

[00:04:25] Becky Vollmer: Oh, 

I don't know that I like that word. Um, I mean, I would, I would certainly think it's appropriate when talking about somebody else. Um, I don't know, legacy feels like big for my britches, but in the context of say, You know, I'm a mom to two teenage girls.

I think legacy is absolutely an appropriate term to think of there. You know, what's the long lasting values and gifts and memories and, um, wisdom that I want to impart to my daughters that'll stay long after I'm gone. So I guess in that sense, yeah, legacy, sure. Legacy for everybody. 

[00:05:05] Heather Lowe: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. So tell me about, like, if you go through the decades.

Like, your 10 and under, your 20 and under, your 30s, your 40s, what those have been for you. 

[00:05:17] Becky Vollmer: Oh my gosh, what a question. Um, all right. 

[00:05:23] Heather Lowe: Childhood. 

[00:05:24] Becky Vollmer: The zeros. What do you call, what do you call the zeros? The single digit years. Um, I think that in most ways was just kind of . Learning the basics of being human. I mean literally, like, how do you walk?

How do you run? How do you, how do you treat people? How do you navigate your individual self in a world that is really, It can be really big. It can be really scary. And I think in those, you know, zero to nine, maybe it was getting the first sense of who I thought I was. I won't say who I was, but probably who I thought I was.

Cause I think we start into those misconceptions pretty early. 

[00:06:11] Heather Lowe: Mmmhmmm. 

[00:06:11] Becky Vollmer: Let's see, 10 to 

[00:06:14] Heather Lowe: who did you think you were? Does something come to mind? Like, were you told some messages about the kind of person you were and it sounds like it was trying to, just be, be separate from your parents, probably just be a person in the world, 

[00:06:26] Becky Vollmer: I was taught that I was loud. I was taught that I was, um, aggressive. I was taught that I was a lot and I will chalk a lot of that up to, I guess my circumstance of being a younger, smaller person in a sea of older, larger people. And what I mean specifically by that is, well, first of all, I was raised mostly as an only child.

I have siblings, um, I guess half siblings from my dad's first marriage. Mm hmm. so there was that. There was, you know, kind of being raised in a little bit of isolation, so a child among a lot of adults. Mm hmm. But more, I think, something that shaped me even more than that was, um, I skipped a grade. In grade school, I didn't go to kindergarten and then I skipped first grade.

So with a July birthday, I was young anyway. And then, you know, like skipping. Like I went to first grade for, I don't know, a couple, a few weeks and pretty quickly the first grade teacher was like, Nope, she needs to go into second grade. So you know, I was little and scrawny, but smart, but with a major chip on my shoulder.

[00:07:52] Heather Lowe: Yeah. 

[00:07:53] Becky Vollmer: So, you know, I was that kid who, um, man, I was, I was scrappy. I was known for. Beating up the boys, even though I was little and scrappy, maybe I didn't beat them up, but I would sure give it a go. Um, you know, I was the kid that got kicked out of the brownie troop, pre girl scouts for having flipped off the troop leader.

Yeah, I was, I was that kid. So when I say who did I think I was, I don't know if I really gave it much conscious thought, but I was just a little, I was a little angry nugget. 

[00:08:33] Heather Lowe: Yeah. Protection and you're with the big guys. So, right. So that makes perfect sense. Okay. And then 10 to 20 

growing up, what did that look like?

[00:08:42] Becky Vollmer: My God, this is such an interesting exercise. 

10 to 20. I was I was definitely a shit disturber and I didn't have a very clear sense of, uh, my own self interest, like what was in my own best interest, I should say. And so I was, um, I was very smart. I got really good grades. and I was drinking, I was smoking, I was, you know, riding around, um, with inexperienced drivers who drove drunk and who drove too fast, you know, I was, um, oh God, all, all of the wrong things with all of the wrong people, I'll say, and, um, I think I got, You know how, how most people, and I'll put that in quotes, you know, most people, they like, they'll have their partying time when they go off to college and maybe in their twenties and whatever I was, I had all of mine done by the time I was, 19. 

[00:09:54] Heather Lowe: I hear you.

We have so much in common. I'm the only child of my mom and dad, and I also have many siblings, but I completely relate to that. And, um, yeah, I mean, the sooner the better. My first drink was at 12, but by 14, I was a weekend drinker and more probably, and give me all the cigarettes for sure. So I hear you.

Okay. Then the twenties, the college eras, right. 

[00:10:17] Becky Vollmer: Well, so 

I didn't have a typical college experience at all. In fact, I think, you know, part of my, part of my headstart from skipping that first grade and having been such a good student in, uh, you know, in elementary and, and high school meant that, I, I also had a head start into college.

So I think , I graduated from high school with enough credits, college credits that I started college as like a second semester sophomore. So already the time frame in which I would 

[00:10:51] Heather Lowe: You were 18. 

[00:10:52] Becky Vollmer: , I was 16 when I graduated from high school. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. And so, um, it was already going to be a condensed, uh, time period, but I, I, I lengthened it back out.

Um, because I took a break during college. Like I started at the community college and did a, did a semester there. And then I transferred to the state school and did a semester there in their journalism program. Um, And then I took a year and a half off. I would not call it a gap year. I would call it the, the year of my greatest codependence, um, I dropped out of college to take care of my alcoholic dad.

And so, you know, I was, I guess I was 18, maybe. Um, You know, I was, I was a cocktail waitress and, um, you know, taking care of my, my dad's bills and our rent and our groceries and yada, yada, yada. And even though I, I think I knew that it , Wasn't quite normal for an 18 year old kid to drop out of college to, you know, to do that.

 I didn't really know anything else. I didn't really, it didn't occur to me that there could have been a different way or a different choice that I could have made. you know, I, something that I didn't. There's some, there's a phrase that I wish I had come across decades before I did, but, um, the therapist Tien Dayton, who's notable in the recovery field, in one of her books, she writes, normal is anything you're used to.

And I remember the first time I read that, it was like, You know, somebody just smacked me across the face with it. Normal is anything you're used to. Not, it's not good. It's not, that's the way things should be. It's just, it's the water you're swimming in. And so I swam in some, I mean, I think I grew up swimming in, you know, just dysfunctional water.

And I didn't know what was, you know, what a quote typical. 18 year old's life could look like. 

[00:13:09] Heather Lowe: Yeah, your upper ear 

was already a little atypical with your being ahead in school and everything. Um, it was what was familiar and it's what was home. So it is what felt right, even if it wasn't, you would know, no different, just like you said.

It sounds to me. And I mean, what comes to mind for me immediately is like literally adult child of an alcoholic, meaning it sounds like you turned 18 and you became the parent. The minute you were an adult, if not before then but you were literally were taking care of him or paying the bills, taking up the role of caregiver, provider, parent.

[00:13:47] Becky Vollmer: Yeah. That's so interesting. 

And I, I hadn't thought of it that way because I think honestly it just, it happened so much earlier than that. You know, I go back to my, my middle teenage years. I think my, my parents, um, I think they separated and eventually divorced, but I think, I want to say I was maybe 15 when my parents, , separated and, I, you know, as daddy's little girl, I mean, there's nobody that I loved more than my father.

Um, there was no, I, I'm sure there was discussion about it, but I don't think there was any, you know, consideration. I was intent on living with my dad. So when my parents separated, my mom moved out. Eventually, I mean, I think within a matter of months, my dad and I, uh, moved from the house that I grew up in.

And then we had a, you know, we had a series of, we'd move to a place, get settled in. Unbeknownst to me, my dad wasn't paying the rent. We'd get kicked out, move to another place. But I didn't know why we would get kicked out. So we'd move to another place. Dad wasn't paying the rent. We're getting kicked out.

And I, you know, after a couple of times of that, I was like, you know what? I have a, I have a better shot of paying my own rent. It seems like, and so I, I think I was. just on the cusp between 16 and 17 when I moved out into my first apartment and graduated from high school and a couple months later, I was on my own.

So, um, and I, and I was on my own when I did that, uh, you know, first semester at the community college and when I went away to the state school, But I can remember, you know, being at journalism school and working there and going to school, but still sending money back to my dad. And at that point, I was just like, you know what, I might as well just, just head back and be responsible for it in person.

[00:15:59] Heather Lowe: Wow. He had to skedaddle and you became very adaptable. It sounds like. 

[00:16:05] Becky Vollmer: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, and I think you say adaptable, I would probably, I can look back and say, you know, maladapt, maladapted. Um, but yeah. There weren't a lot of voices in my life saying that's super fucked up. Um, I think the one voice that probably said that, and I just couldn't hear it then would have been my mother.

And I was in no mood to listen. I don't, I don't know a lot of teenage girls who are in much mood to listen to their mothers, but you know, especially when. You know, you're so codependent and families, you know, relationships are so dysfunctional and you really are so maladapted and you don't understand that, this might be normal, but it really isn't normal.

It's just, it's really hard to take that, information in, especially at like, you know, those tender ages where you know, in that circumstance, I think I was functioning as more of an adult than obviously I was as a kid. You know, I think back, like I've got a 16 and a half year old daughter now, you know, she's still 

[00:17:20] Heather Lowe: She's not head of the household?

She's, she might think she is, she tries to be, but she doesn't pay the rent, that's for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just want to give credit to little Becky for being so resourceful, really for being scrappy in your younger years with the big guys and for adjusting as your dad needed to adjust. Right? 

[00:17:45] Becky Vollmer: Well, thanks.

Yeah. . Thanks. I mean, 

[00:17:48] Heather Lowe: Survivor. That's what I hear. 

[00:17:49] Becky Vollmer: Yeah. I, I would've done, 

I would've done anything for him. He was. For sure. My first love. 

[00:17:57] Heather Lowe: what happens then beyond that twenties to thirties? 

[00:18:02] Becky Vollmer: So 

twenties, twenties was the decade of getting my shit together. Um, you know, by the time I had, I was 20, I had probably moved.

you know, definitely double digits, I think. Um, it's like, I've, I've almost got the, you know, the nomad, nomadic, um, story of like an army brat, but without, without the army part, just, just, 

[00:18:32] Heather Lowe: without the purple heart. 

[00:18:36] Becky Vollmer: Just somebody who moved. 

[00:18:37] Heather Lowe: Without the thank you for your service. Yeah. 

[00:18:39] Becky Vollmer: Yeah. So, you know, if, if the teens were punctuated by a lot of instability, um, I really got stable in my twenties.

Um, I eventually went back, finished college, you know, studied journalism, which I, loved and still am lucky enough to kind of put to use today. Eventually, I guess I shouldn't say I stabilized completely because I did have, you know, there was still a little moving around. I tried my hand at living in Colorado, working for a newspaper out there and that didn't work.

Um, before that I, I worked in a newspaper in upstate New York. Um, you know, and then coming back to the St. Louis area, you know, I did a couple different newspapers. Um, got married, got divorced. Yeah. I, you know, all of that by the time I was 25. 

[00:19:32] Heather Lowe: Married and divorced by 25. 

[00:19:34] Becky Vollmer: I was, yeah. Married. 

[00:19:35] Heather Lowe: You were an adult by 16.

So 

[00:19:39] Becky Vollmer: yeah, I, uh, yeah, I don't know that I'm an adult now, so I might, I might. you know, chortle at that characterization. But yeah, I think I was, I was playing one for sure. And, um, you know, so to have that, I joke, you know, we, we call that first one like a, a failed starter marriage. Of course you don't go into it expecting that it would, you know, Fail, you go into it feeling like I'm mature and this is love and I'm ready and willing to make this commitment to this person for the rest of my life.

And, you know, to recognize very shortly, , into it, Oh, this was a really big mistake. I mean, actually to have realized before I did it, that it was a mistake. 

[00:20:27] Heather Lowe: You knew going into it, it was not going to be it. 

[00:20:31] Becky Vollmer: Yeah. I mean, I think I hoped for the best. Um, I re I remember very clearly the moment of standing in the back of the church waiting for the doors to open, you know, you can hear the, the organ music playing and I'm standing there on my dad's arm and he looks down at me and he says, you know, you don't have to do this.

And I just responded, yeah, I do. And I didn't, you know, I didn't finish that sentence for him, you know, yeah, I do because, but I, I can look in retrospect, and I could see this fairly quickly in retrospect, I did it because I said I would, and I didn't want to let anybody down. 

[00:21:14] Heather Lowe: Right, and you're very responsible.

[00:21:16] Becky Vollmer: Well, yeah, and, and, you know, as any 

codependent who recognizes their codependence can tell you, the sense of responsibility that that weighs on you is so

It's so false. It's so, um, self imposed, and it's so exaggerated, but it feels so real. 

[00:21:43] Heather Lowe: Mm hmm. That's heavy load to carry. 

Yeah. It's invisible, right? Yeah. You feel it, you see it. That's crazy your dad knew. 

Everybody knew. Everybody knew 

everybody knew everybody there. You went marching down that aisle. The congregation stands.

[00:22:02] Becky Vollmer: Yeah, I would say stubbornness is one of my telltale traits. So, you know, you couldn't tell me anything as a little kid. You couldn't tell me anything anything as a teenager. You certainly weren't going to tell me anything when I was a grown ass adult at 25. Right. And I'm saying that very, very .

Very tongue in cheek. Um, but I will say, for as , unstable as the first 25 years of my life were, uh, the second half of my life, well, let me, the first half of the second half of my 

life was very stable. 

[00:22:40] Heather Lowe: The quarter life crisis, let's say, 

[00:22:44] Becky Vollmer: it's so funny that, you know, sometimes like we tell ourselves a story like, oh yeah, you know, the second half has been so stable except for.

Well, except for this. Oh, yeah. And this and oh, right before that there was this, you know, you mentioned having gone through all of those life changes in a pretty short amount of time. So I would, yeah. 

[00:23:04] Heather Lowe: So, but that was 25, 25 to 35 were all those changes? To 40 maybe? I mean those things like in a matter of years.

[00:23:15] Becky Vollmer: Yeah, well, so let's say 25 to 33 was all about my career. And actually even my early 20s, you know, I, I spent that time working in newspapers and then I left newspapers to work in political campaigns. , got recruited out of political campaigns to work in public relations, which I loved, absolutely loved.

And so I spent, you know, those years of my, you know, later twenties, early thirties, , just making my way through the ladder. Absolutely loved it. And then, um, I say 33 was an, uh, was an important year because That was the year that I had my first child. I was somebody who never intended to have kids.

Um, I mean, never. I, from, you know, as long as I can remember me, certainly as a teenager, I was Loud and adamant. I mean, it's very consistent in the idea that I didn't have anything that I wanted to teach anybody. I mean, legacy? Forget about it. Like I wanted to make a bunch of money and retire early. And Oh, by the way, I didn't even like kids, you know, I wanted to have leisurely Sunday brunches and I wanted to day drink and I wanted to travel the world. There was not.

Time or energy or money, in my view, to add kids into that mix. 

[00:24:48] Heather Lowe: That is so interesting.

[00:24:50] Becky Vollmer: Yeah. and so, you know, even when I met the man who became my husband. My second husband, who later became my ex husband, and now I'm married to my third husband. 

[00:25:00] Heather Lowe: The second start of the old marriage.

[00:25:03] Becky Vollmer: Oh my goodness. So many marriages, so little time. You know, but when I met, um, my, we'll call him my ex husband, , you know, I was really clear, like, hey, you know, I like you, and I can see this going somewhere, but you need to know that I do not intend to have kids. And, uh, it's like, cause I think you do. And so, you know, I understand we can, we can stop this right here.

And, you know, he was curious to why don't you want to have kids? And my list of reasons was so ready and it made so much sense to me. You know, the financial reasons that, um, wanting to retire early, the literally wanting to day drink was a big reason why 

[00:25:46] Heather Lowe: I'm like, you've said it all right there. I mean, 

who needs 

another one?

[00:25:49] Becky Vollmer: And so, you know, after hearing that, he was like, you know what? I think you've convinced me. Child free life sounds pretty great. It was like, okay, awesome. So, you know, we dated, we had our fun, we got married. And then, you know, a few years later, as I watched girlfriends start families and, you know, they didn't seem completely miserable.

It was like, well, I don't know, maybe, maybe. And I just kind of sat with that maybe for a while. And then, I don't know, Heather, I don't know if it was, it was like something caught fire internally and that maybe became a very strong desire. never, I never expected that. And I guess, you know, is that baby fever?

Is that the maternal instinct kicking in? I don't know, but I very suddenly wanted not, I wasn't ambivalent. I wanted to have a child. 

[00:26:51] Heather Lowe: Becky, I love that. It speaks to the fact that you can change your mind. 

[00:26:55] Becky Vollmer: Well, sure. 

[00:26:56] Heather Lowe: To be flexible enough and you should. And that resilience, that ability of yours to, when you have new information, to be able to look at something and have a new opinion about it.

Right. To change the way you think. I mean. I think that's your greatest gift, your huge talent. And that is what you've taught us through your book as well. But what a big thing to change your mind about. So luckily ex husband was like, okay, I've changed my mind too. 

[00:27:23] Becky Vollmer: It took a little convincing. I won't lie.

He was like, but wait, like you, you convinced me that this is supposed to be so great. And now you want to, you know, now you want to go and fuck him. Um, but yeah, we, Yeah, my first daughter came along at 33 and You know, I, about, she was a year old and I was like, you know what? This is great. Let's do it again.

And so, you know, then here comes the second one. And I, I bet I was still pregnant with my second one when I looked at Dave and I was like, you know, if we're going to have two, we might as well have, And he was like, nope, I'm going as soon as this one pops out, I'm going in for a vasectomy. I draw the line at two.

And so, um, yeah, maybe, maybe two is just the, the perfect number. But yeah, all through my, 30s after the girls came, there was a huge shift in, you know, what I thought was important in the world. And for the first time in a long time, it had nothing to do with achievement. It wasn't about getting straight A's and it wasn't about, you know, being the youngest and the best and the first.

And it wasn't about. You know, climbing the corporate ladder, it became, 

Did 

[00:28:42] Heather Lowe: you know, that at the time, like that your values were shifting or the way you are measuring success would need to change. Did you recognize it then? Or do you recognize it now? Looking back? 

[00:28:51] Becky Vollmer: No, I certainly see it now. I think. There was actually a moment where I think the light bulb went off.

Um, I think it was a slow build, starting with Josie's birth that, that really picked up a lot of energy and momentum as, you know, as really the weeks and months went on. So when, you know, when I was pregnant with Josie, there were a few things that were going on.

That was the first time since I was a teenager that I was not drinking every day there I was 33. you know, I probably started drinking every day in my, I don't know, we'll call it 17, Um, so that's a pretty long time to have, that steady stream of alcohol in my system. 

[00:29:44] Heather Lowe: You were drinking every day and you were also seeing so much success.

You were achieving , school milestones, career milestones. 

[00:29:53] Becky Vollmer: Yeah, 

[00:29:53] Heather Lowe: it went to get drinking us was, I don't know if it was escalating but it daily drinking plus. All these outside accolades in your career and such, 

[00:30:02] Becky Vollmer: I, you know, when it really started to escalate was after kids, and in, well, so much happened in a really concentrated period of time here.

When I was pregnant with Josie, my dad was dying a couple years before, , he had been diagnosed with stage four, um, colon cancer. And so, you know, watching him decline and decline and decline was really hard. And, um, I had a medical condition during my pregnancy that required. Uh, bed rest after about, I guess about six months in.

And so, you know, there I was confined to bed while my dad was just however many miles away here in St. Louis, you know, dying. And that was really hard to reconcile because my dad had been my best friend. for my entire life. He was, he was my ride or die. He was my companion. You know, he was my first drinking buddy.

And honestly, I was his, not his first, but you know, I can remember going to bars with him at, Oh God. I mean, they would talk about me drinking Being, you know, placed up on the bar when I was still in diapers, like sitting, not at the bar on the bar. I was, I mean, I just always tagged along to bars with him.

And so I guess maybe in that way he was never, not never, but he wasn't drinking alone if I was there. Um, but yeah, I mean, I started drinking with him in bars when I was an . Middle teenager. 

[00:31:46] Heather Lowe: And that 

too is normal. I mean, what it is, you grew up there. That was the environment. You were accepted. That was home.

That was familiar. No big deal. Of course, that's what you do with your dad. He's your buddy. And now you're losing him. You're having birth and death at the same time. 

[00:32:04] Becky Vollmer: Yeah. Yeah. And it was really, it was really hard. Yeah. One of my most cherished photographs is of my dad actually came to the hospital then, you know, in the overnight hours when she was born, and he got dressed up in his It's best yellow cashmere sweater, and it looked like he was a thousand years old.

I mean, he looked like he was pretty close to death. There's a picture of him, you know, he was sitting in a wheelchair and he had a pillow on his lap and he was just holding her, just looking down and holding her. And it's just, oh, it's just so precious that. That he was there for that. Um, but he died when she was just eight weeks old.

And so I think that, you know, that process of like bringing her into the world, saying goodbye to him from the world, that definitely sparked a shift in priorities for me. And, you know, I, at that point, I, I don't know that I would have called it a shift in values. Um, at least not one that I could recognize at that point, but then, you know, after I think when Josie was about six months old, I, I went to a part time schedule, uh, at the PR firm where I worked and I put part time in air quotes because I mean, it's just kind of laughable.

It was, you know, I agreed to about 45 hours a week. 

[00:33:38] Heather Lowe: You could work full time and get paid for part time. Yeah. Great. Yeah. Mm hmm. 

That's all moms do. 

[00:33:44] Becky Vollmer: Yeah. That's right. That's right. And so, um, after, you know, after Julia arrived like a year and a half after that, I just, I was, I just wanted to give them all of my time and all of my energy and all of my love.

And yet I felt so chained. To my professional career,

and I did not see until much, much later that I was the one that kept myself chained there, you know, I could have made a different choice long before I chose to leave there, which I did when I was 38. so Josie would have been five. At that point. but I kept myself chained there and I allowed my own misery to grow and grow and grow and grow.

And so, you know, talk about my drinking increasing definitely in those early years , of being a mom. I was just so miserable trying to balance what was just. It's impossible to balance. And that was really the only way that I knew how to, I don't know, kind of quell that angst, I think.

And so I made a choice at 38 to walk away from the corporate landscape and I have never regretted that choice. Not one bit. I will say that I was really lucky to have been able to make that choice. And part of what enabled that choice was, um, a gainfully employed now ex husband.

But it was doable to go from a two income family to a one income family with some lifestyle modifications. And that's a luxury that a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of people just do not have. It's a luxury that's many people have and are unwilling to undertake, but, you know, let's, let's be clear. That is a luxury that.

Most people don't have, 

[00:35:47] Heather Lowe: We never get into the grit of it, right? About the change, the transformation and everything. So, it sounds like with a lot of change, right? We think about it for a long time before we do it or, um, to actually take , from thinking to action is, is the hard part, but for you that had been your identity.

And actually you being smart and accomplished and successful and achieving in every way since childhood was your identity. And yeah, you saw yourself as this career girl in PR and journalism and making money and traveling the world and doing the things. So you shifted to become a mom. When you became a mom, did you

did you want to keep both? Do both? Did you think that that was like, you'll just keep your job and then also have a baby on your hip sometimes? Or did you have an idea of what motherhood and career hood, the balance or the imbalance of that would look like? 

[00:36:49] Becky Vollmer: Yeah, I mean, I, I saw other women struggle with it, but, um, I mean, here's my hubris.

I, again, having, you know, always been, you know, top of my class or, you know, the first one to do something or, you know, when, when you're award winning in some ways, you think you're going to be award winning in all ways. And. Um, you know, how ridiculous of me to think, well, I can figure out how to balance stuff, just even if they couldn't, right?

I'm smarter. It's like, Oh, you dumb ass. No, you're not. 

[00:37:25] Heather Lowe: Your attempt was part time work in quotes, right? Like part time work. And then also with my kids and this will be fine. Then you're seeing that. It's not because part time work means 50 hours a week. And so you're going to have to have a shift in values again now with like income or how you measure success.

Tell me more about how you came to that decision. 

[00:37:47] Becky Vollmer: in many ways, I think the decision came to me when, when I finally was willing to recognize that my own discomfort. had grown out of hand. Um, I am someone or I had been someone who was very, adept at squashing my own discomfort and never gave it a voice.

And even though, you know, even if Other people might look at that and say, yeah, you're so full of shit. You know, you would, you could bitch and moan with the best of them. Yeah. I would like bang the drum, but I never gave my, my deeper discomfort. An actual voice that I would listen to. And so once it became clear to me in my own thinking, that if I don't listen to this voice inside me, that is screaming for something different, that I'm just, I am abandoning myself.

Mm-Hmm, . And that I owe it to this, this thing within me that is clawing to get out. I owe it to her. Mm-Hmm. to open the door. 

[00:39:00] Heather Lowe: Would you call that intuition? 

[00:39:03] Becky Vollmer: I think now, I mean, then I called it, um, misery. I called it, you know, self-interest. I called it, um, desperation. Mm-Hmm. . And now I would call it stardust.

[00:39:19] Heather Lowe: Mm hmm. The stardust inside you. So it had to get so loud. It had to start screaming. You did all the things you could to ignore it and stuff it down and avoid it. And eventually, there was no other way. You had to go with it. It was very demanding. 

[00:39:34] Becky Vollmer: I mean, is that not the story of every heroine's journey right there?

[00:39:38] Heather Lowe: Yeah, but I think you listen, you um, heard yourself wanting kids. Two, which was like a shift. 

[00:39:44] Becky Vollmer: Yeah, that's true. 

[00:39:45] Heather Lowe: Eventually you, and I'm sure when you first had the idea, you're like, shut up, Becky, that's crazy. Why would you do that? There's, you know, Prosecco in the afternoon or whatever. Why would you have a baby?

It's going to ruin everything. You know, like, I'm sure you didn't listen the first time it came, but eventually it kept coming in. Yeah, it is that we try to ignore our own selves. Okay, so you make a huge shift and again, ex husband goes along with it. 

[00:40:11] Becky Vollmer: Yeah, I think maybe a little more grudgingly than I understood at the time.

I thought, um, you know, what I saw as kind of a, a resistance that was, you know, that still reflected a lot of hope. I think I later recognized was a resistance that was rooted in, um, just sheer overwhelm. And I think I didn't understand kind of how, how scared that change had made him, you know, It's challenging to go from , a dual income arrangement where the burden is shared to a single income situation where the burden shifts exclusively to one person.

And, you know, I. I certainly wasn't walking away from work. Um, I had shifted at this point to teach yoga, which I had been trained and certified for many years, kind of on the side, but leaving corporate gave me the opportunity to actually, you know, do that as a, as a job. Well, I will tell you that yoga teachers don't teach yoga to make money, but it's, it's 

[00:41:20] Heather Lowe: I'm shocked.

[00:41:21] Becky Vollmer: You're not. Um, it's, I mean, it's just, Yoga teachers don't earn a lot of money. And so even though I was working and I was busy, um, I wasn't bringing in any meaningful income whatsoever. And, you know, at the same time, wow, I, I only thought my drinking had reached its peak. Oh, at corporate, what I could not have seen, um, on the horizon was the fact that when I got.

Quote, everything I wanted, right? I was able to step away from that high pressure job that was sucking me dry. I was, you know, able through the, the structure of my life to spend the time with my daughters while they were young. Um, you know, and I, I. I felt like I was so proud of myself that I had created that for myself.

But the other thing that that sort of freedom and, um, less structure afforded me was the ability to drink whenever I wanted. So there was, you know, what used to be go to work all day and then come home and have a glass of wine, you know, but I wouldn't get home until six or seven, um, became. Oh, , well, I can drink wine while I'm cooking dinner. Oh, I can drink wine while I'm chopping the vegetables. Oh, I could drink wine while I'm looking in the refrigerator figuring out what we're going to eat for dinner, you know, and, , things like, oh, you know, it's it's Wednesday afternoon in the summertime, and I'm going to take my kids to the pool at noon.

You know, nobody knew that my, tumbler, that that wasn't water or tea or lemonade, you know, they didn't know that. So I just had a lot more freedom to fill my days with more drinking.

[00:43:18] Heather Lowe: Stepping out of the corporate environment, though, felt like Alignment for you after having all those years of like wanting to grow and achieve and move the ladder and have your image I've been working in New York or being in journalism or all those things while you were in school going for I Imagine you had this vision of yourself and then you became that and then now you let that go to be a part time Yoga instructor.

[00:43:43] Becky Vollmer: I think I really welcomed the change you know, because what you see of somebody when they're at the office, you know, they're in, fresh clothes, you know, they're in a power suit, they're in power heels, their hair is done, their makeup's on point, they're, you know, they've got the right jewelry on, um, they might look like a million bucks.

Rewind the clock. You know, 60 or 90 minutes and they've got babies, you know, they've got spit up in their hair. They haven't taken a shower. They still, you know, they have their glasses on and not their contacts. And one kid is crying and one you're, you know, you're changing a poopy diaper and you know, you're dreading the day ahead and wondering how am I possibly going to do all of this?

How can I get it all done? Who am I going to disappoint today? I mean, it's a, it's really a miserable proposition when you think about it. And as soon as I say those words, I, I, I recognize I should rephrase. It was a miserable proposition for me.

I don't mean to disparage. Anybody else's experience of, you know, balancing work and kids or, you know, however they choose to do it. We all have our own, tolerance level. We all have our own quirks. All I can say is that for me, it had become untenable. And so when I walked away, I wanted to walk as far away as I possibly could.

[00:45:20] Heather Lowe: And you never looked back. Becky, you're bringing me right back to it because I, I also had the choice that not everyone has, and I wanted to work part time and, you know, be mom. And so how lucky the best of both worlds. So I thought with a husband that would travel because that's how we were going to live the kind of lifestyle that we wanted.

That's how we were going to make that work. And I thought the mom would be the one there with the babies when they were brand new. I was breastfeeding all the things, right? They had just come out of me. This is what I wanted. I felt like obviously burning the candle at both ends and giving half ass everywhere.

Being on breastfeeding and being at conference calls at the same time. I was always at work and I was always a mom. And I was always disappointing some, I was not doing any of it very well, although somehow I was holding all the balls in the air as I was also destroying myself secretly with alcohol.

Like you talking about that is bringing me right back to how that was and how that felt. But I didn't have a chance to think about myself because I couldn't catch a breath. I just had to make this meeting and be to daycare on time. And, you know, somebody needed dinner. And I was lonely as hell. And my husband was receiving a lot of accolades, going to private Katy Perry concerts.

You know, he was getting to drink and travel for fun and getting awarded for it. And I was home, you know, as an extrovert. And it's what I chose, it's what we chose together, really. It's what I wanted. And it's a very beautiful, entitled opportunity to have. And also, yeah, I feel you. So you walked away, you never looked back.

Now you're a new life. You're a home full time and you yoga on the side. 

[00:47:06] Becky Vollmer: Yeah, and I think that gets right to what you had said. I wasn't looking at myself. I didn't have time to take a breath. I couldn't think about me. I mean, I don't think it's an, it's an accident or coincidence that I only really got brave enough to look at drinking after I had left the work environment.

Because I had known for many years, you know, prior to that, that I had a real problematic relationship with alcohol. I mean, I was somebody every year, I, I love to make New Year's resolutions and every year I would sit down, pen to paper, and I would make, a list of five or 10 and I'd stick it on my refrigerator.

And the number one resolution that I made for myself for like five plus years running was drink less or some other, you know, specific version of drink less. Like. Wine only on weekends. Right. You know, all of the things that we do 

[00:48:14] Heather Lowe: after five, never more than this. Only I know, of course. Yeah. 

[00:48:18] Becky Vollmer: Only if I go to the gym that day.

[00:48:21] Heather Lowe: No, I wrote in my diary when I, when I was 21, the legal drinking age. I have it. It says, I'm afraid I'm an alcoholic. I just turned legal drinking age. I would quit exactly 21 years later when I was 42. But it felt like the elixir to keep it going. And to your point, like where I said, I had never thought about me.

Something you had said earlier is like, I didn't know it was an option to think about me. Like, I didn't know I could think about me. Nobody asked how I was doing. Not that I blame the world, but it was like, How are the kids and Darren succeeding? And wow, she's got it all together. And, you know, I had the cutest kids and the cutest outfits, and I was getting promoted at my jobs, even as a part time worker, and I had a mommy blog, you know, the whole thing.

So I didn't know, I could say, is this working for me? Or I think I need something different. 

[00:49:15] Becky Vollmer: Yeah. 

[00:49:15] Heather Lowe: Or I could really use a break, or I need to ask for help, or I'm drowning. I didn't know those were options, but I knew that I could open a bottle of wine, 

you know. 

[00:49:27] Becky Vollmer: I think, you know, and this is, this takes us out of the chronological timeline, which is a good thing to do.

I don't know if it's that we don't know we can say those things, or we don't know if we can feel those things. I think. It, you know, at least in my experience, I would not even allow myself to sit with those, like, to just sink down into the feelings. I would only meet them right there on the surface and just be so frustrated with myself that I couldn't keep it all together better.

Right. And I had this sensation that I have to keep up appearances and I have been walking this particular path for so long. It was like I was a horse with blinders. I didn't look one way or the other in part because the, you know, the structure was set so that You know, I was only able to look forward, 

[00:50:29] Heather Lowe: head down, get through the day.

[00:50:31] Becky Vollmer: I never stopped and like literally looked left or looked right or looked down or looked up. Oh my God, I never stopped and looked up I mean, more importantly than all of that, I never stopped and looked within. And I think that goes back to being, you know, so adept at, at just stifling any sensation of discomfort.

Now that I wouldn't give it a name, I, I don't think I, you know, when you were talking about, uh, you know, your husband is getting all the accolades and you know, you're doing all this work, but you, you were feeling lonely. I could not have looked at my own situation and identified such an important feeling.

[00:51:22] Heather Lowe: Yeah, I don't think I knew it at the time. Yeah. Right. And I was jealous, which I also didn't recognize at the time, because if I did feel jealous, because of course I felt jealous, right? Like, who doesn't want a private Katy Perry concert? And who doesn't want to have words of affirmation all over the world?

Like, and I wanted all of that. And we could be equals at home and we could be equals at work was the thing too, like either one of us could have taken the role of worker bee and either one of us could have been the home or both capable people in all the ways, and this is what we chose. So I did look at him with a lot of jealousy, but I told him I didn't know what I was feeling at times and said, that's wrong.

You shouldn't feel that way. 

[00:52:02] Becky Vollmer: Yeah. 

[00:52:03] Heather Lowe: Well, you chose this. So, you know, you don't get to feel jealous about that or what do you want him to be home with the kids? You'd be jealous about that too. You want the responsibility of the financial burden. You know, if I was mad or resentful or lonely, how can you have so many friends.

Shame on you. It's your fault. Your feelings are wrong. Whatever you're feeling, it's wrong. And the best way to numb that is to just have a little bit of wine every evening. Right. 

[00:52:31] Becky Vollmer: Yeah. What you were just saying, it reminded me so much of, um, the excellent soliloquy in the Barbie movie, uh, you know, that America Ferrera says just how hard it is to be a woman.

Like there's no right way to There's no right way. Right, 

[00:52:48] Heather Lowe: totally. We were on that balance beam trying to be perfect in both ways. So tell me about, so you're doing this, you're home with the kids, you're doing yoga on the side, you're more aligned, , you walk away from corporate life, this is good.

Your husband's going to work, so far he's gone along even reluctantly with all your plans for kids and now plans for quitting the job. What's happening? And your drinking is escalating, it's starting earlier in the day. 

[00:53:12] Becky Vollmer: Mm hmm. 

[00:53:13] Heather Lowe: What's happening with your relationship? 

[00:53:15] Becky Vollmer: First things first. I mean, the headline is that our relationship implodes, but the precursor to that was I stopped drinking. Oh. Mm hmm. We were, you know, we were plugging along. Um, I, you know, I always thought we had a great relationship, you know, kind of 50 50 as parents and very good friends and we laughed pretty easily and, you know, we had a nice circle of people that we hung out with.

We had great support from our families. Um, I always thought we kind of, I, I thought we had it made. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. And when I recognized, I had, I had sort of, I had an epiphany, um, about my drinking I guess it was 2014

and I I understood that I had to quit and I had to quit then. I had a, I had a very loud message from the voice of my soul that told me so. And so when I. When I shared that with my then husband, You know, I told him that I, I'd been trying for so long to cut down and it had really gotten worse and that I wanted so desperately to stop and, um, you know, I told him the day that was our, our 10th wedding anniversary.

I told him over drinks that I wanted to stop drinking.

[00:54:42] Heather Lowe: Naturally. Of course. 

[00:54:43] Becky Vollmer: Naturally. And, uh, I said, you know, we had, we had a very emotional conversation, you know, I cried like a baby in a restaurant, um, you know, admitting that I really had a very problematic relationship with alcohol and I had to just stop.

And I, I asked him if he would, you know, please, out of moral support, quit with me. And I, I maintain this one of the most generous things a person can do for another, certainly one of the most generous things that I've ever received in my life was when he said, okay, that he would quit with me. Because I think so much of what had stood in my way before that would be like, you know, it's really hard to not have a glass of wine when the person you're sitting next to is having a glass of wine.

Uh huh. So when he said he would quit with me, I recognized, okay, we're going for this. And I was like, all right, well, let's You know, let's, let's leave this restaurant. We'll go home. It's our 10th anniversary. We'll, you know, we'll cook the steaks that we bought. We'll open that, you know, we'll have that really nice bottle of wine that we brought home from Napa.

And, you know, tomorrow's a new day. And he just looked down at the table where, you know, they're empty wine glasses and he's like, You've already had your last drink.

I was terrified. I mean, that moment, I was just so terrified. And so, you know, we kind of went from there. I, it was pretty easy for him to take it or leave it. Um, it was not easy for me and I kind of white knuckled it every single fucking day. 

[00:56:20] Heather Lowe: And we're right on our timeline because aren't you in your, about your 40, you're 40 years old now?

[00:56:24] Becky Vollmer: I'm 39. 

[00:56:25] Heather Lowe: Yeah. 

[00:56:26] Becky Vollmer: Yeah. I was really, really, really, I struggled, um, and through that process, I think he and I started to struggle and, uh, you know, fast forward, maybe , six or eight months in and, um, he unexpectedly lost his job. And so there we were, you know, In a short amount of time, like in 18 months, we had gone from no in, yeah, in 18 months, we'd gone from a two income family to a one income family to a no income family.

Newly sober, we lost our families out 

[00:57:05] Heather Lowe: there. 

[00:57:05] Becky Vollmer: Yeah. You know, didn't know how we were going to make our house payment. Um, so there, you know, there instantly became infused into the relationship, a ton of stress. anger, uh, blame. And though we had not had those elements in our relationship before then, it had been very much kind of a partnership.

And now here we were like, it's just really. The word that I have used so many times, because I can't come up with a better one is just crunchy. Everything between us was very crunchy. And so, you know, recognizing, Hey, we probably need to get ahead of this. Why don't we, you know, why don't we talk to a marriage counselor?

Because I feel like our foundation's getting a little shaky. And so we got to, let's get ahead of it.

And, um, you know, very quickly, like, I think it was our second session, he just said, you know, I, I'm sorry. I don't love you. And I haven't for quite some time. It was like, oh, shit. I didn't, I really didn't see that one coming. And, yeah, that, was a huge blow. I mean, mentally, um, to my heart, to my security.

I was amazed every day that I stayed sober through that. Because I fell into such a, I mean, I thought I knew what depression was. I didn't know what depression was. I mean, I reached a point where I literally couldn't get out of bed. I had two little kids and I couldn't get out of bed. thank God for, you know, medical chemical intervention.

I, you know, that was my first experience with, um, antidepressants. And it was a decision that I wrestled with because, you know, here I was sober. Do antidepressants mean you're not sober? I mean, it's a mood altering substance, right? I mean, I had a lot of round and rounds in my head and it took, um, it took taking the question to, uh, a group of sober women to say, like, I am, you know, fucking drowning here in my own depression.

and this has been prescribed to me and I don't know what to do about it. And I mean, every single one of them going around the room. I take them, I take them, I take them. It doesn't make you less sober. You've got to give yourself a fighting chance. Yeah. I, I, I remember feeling so grateful to all of those women who raised their hands to say me too me too really powerful about me too in every context.

[00:59:55] Heather Lowe: And here's a life raft. Take it. 

[00:59:57] Becky Vollmer: Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, it took about a year and a half. After that, you know, I don't love you anymore that we finally decided to pull the plug. And, um, it was very, it was mutual. It was done with a whole lot of love and respect and friendship. And I'm, I remain very grateful for the way I mean, we parted ways with a lot of grace.

Yeah. It, you know, it, it shifted a few years after that, but you know, in those during that really hard time and in the, you know, in the years immediately after it was, um, I felt very lucky. Like, I was. I felt lucky to have been married to my ex husband, but I felt really lucky to have divorced, you know, that he was the person I was going through divorce with because, it was very, we were emotionally generous with each other.

You know, we didn't fight over things like money. In fact, I remember sitting at the table with the mediator and, you know, She's just, she starts laughing and she's like, you two, you know, what you're saying? No, I insist you have this. And you know, you're saying, no, I insist you have this. She's like, I've never seen divorcing people fight over trying to give each other stuff.

[01:01:16] Heather Lowe: Overly generous with each other. 

[01:01:17] Becky Vollmer: Yeah. But that, I mean, that was the spirit of it. And so it, I mean, if you have to get divorced that was a, it was a pretty good way to do it.

[01:01:27] Heather Lowe: So it wasn't your choice to begin with, or it shocked you.\

[01:01:30] Becky Vollmer: It shocked me. It wouldn't have been my choice to begin with, but by, you know, after having gone through marriage counseling for 18 months, it, you know, it was, you know, It was where I wanted to be.

And it was, it was mutual. I mean, I think leading up to that, we both were committed to trying to work through it all. But I do remember in the beginning, you know, kind of toward the, in the beginning, say quarter of all of our marriage counseling time, I was so focused on, well, I just want him to, you know, I want him to want to be in the relationship.

I want him to love me. I want him to come back. And I remember the therapist saying, essentially. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's all important. But through this process, what you're going to discover is what you really, because it has to be based on what you really want too. And you know, I guess kind of like what you said earlier about being able to change your mind with the infusion of new information.

Um, I think, you know, those, those months of therapy were really useful in that I got to process what I. Okay. Thought and felt and needed and wanted. And so that by the time. And all of that work kind of naturally concluded and we came to the same place of like, Hey, I'm ready to call it. Are you ready to call it?

And it was like, yeah, I'm, I'm ready. you know, that, that feeling of like, I, I gave it my all to try to repair something that you know, could have been worth repairing. Especially because we don't live in a bubble and, you know, we have children and we have in laws and, you know, , for familiar reasons and financial reasons and, you know, history reasons and security reasons, right?

There were lots of reasons why a relationship can be worth saving and there are lots of reasons why after you're able to say you know what I gave it everything that I reasonably could have and should have and now I can push off from here in a way that is It's really full of integrity and compassion for everybody

and good intention. 

[01:03:49] Heather Lowe: I love that. And letting go is the strongest, smartest, most loving thing to do so many times. And we forget that because we think we're supposed to hold on or think we're supposed to tough it out or whatever, you know, whatever these messages, when it's like, you could just drop the rope.

Right. And that would be, could be really beautiful and best for all. Also, the alternative ending could be also beautiful. 

[01:04:14] Becky Vollmer: Yeah. I mean, the saying let go or be dragged is not bullshit. 

[01:04:18] Heather Lowe: Yeah. So the fact that this wasn't your, you didn't initiate. It, but you got comfortable with it and you started to see that and you are also for it at the end.

I think that's, that is beautiful. And that made for a generous ending. 

[01:04:36] Becky Vollmer: Yeah. And I think it's telling that, you know, within a few years, um, we had both, um, remarried and, you know, what that signifies to me is that, you know, one person is not, you know, your only source of happiness. 

[01:04:51] Heather Lowe: No, your dog is. 

[01:04:53] Becky Vollmer: Right.

So I guess if you could just take your dog to a new relationship, but you know, we're, we're laughing at that. One person is not your source of happiness. Your source is, it's an inner source. And so when, you know, when that. It's like when the space within is like gentle, yet fortified and, you know, open, yet, you know, curious, yet knowing it's like you can take that and create more happiness around that.

And so I feel like. knowing that we were both able to, you know, kind of move forward and create more happiness separately. That, I mean, that just spoke to the fact that it was, it was right to part and it was a parting done well. 

[01:05:50] Heather Lowe: Yeah. 

Yeah, 

I hear you. And we talked before we hit record about really some relationships and friendships and stuff that I had that were hard to let go of, but we're meant to grow and outgrow people.

Yeah. I mean, that is a sign of growth and healing and success, and there's nothing wrong with either person, but we are meant to outgrow people. Right? Like it's a, it's a, it's proof of change. It's proof of healing, and that's what we're meant to do. So. You said like, Oh, how many marriages, but it's like a chance to love for a reason or a season or a lifetime, right?

Or that love you have, the respect can change forms and that's okay. It doesn't have to stay your husband to be the father of your children or however that looks. So that's really beautiful. 

[01:06:36] Becky Vollmer: And I do think Heather,, we're meant to outgrow a lot of things. So. You know, we're meant to outgrow probably more things than, than not.

[01:06:47] Heather Lowe: We are not stuck. We are not stuck. Right?

[01:06:52] Becky Vollmer: So we're meant to outgrow habits. 

We're meant to outgrow, you know, jobs or careers. We're meant to outgrow interests. You know, we're, we're made for constant curiosity and constant evolution. And so if we're not willing to outgrow things, that's another way of saying I would prefer to be stagnant.

[01:07:12] Heather Lowe: Right. Well, and things aren't really stagnant. 

So I think we have been raised to think like, oh, we're celebrating 50 years in the same job. Congratulations on your retirement or whatever, that that would be a sign of success. But nothing really, unless we're dead, it is moving, it is shifting. So it is the way we can adapt to that, the way we can flex.

, when our environment flexes and things are always shifting, whether that's subtle or big. And like we said, you did a lot in a row here in your early forties of like, I changed my job. 

Yeah. I 

changed my marriage and I quit drinking. 

[01:07:46] Becky Vollmer: You, were listening. 

[01:07:48] Heather Lowe: Yeah. But I'm curious because you went through a period of depression.

Like, is this when husband loses his job home with the kids, super drinking? 

[01:07:57] Becky Vollmer: No, I think my depression was, you know, right after like, Yeah, I, I don't love you and yeah, that just surprise of that, I think thr you know, not just off kilter, but it, it, it just knocked me over. 

[01:08:13] Heather Lowe: And you were still home with children basically.

Yeah. And having to get out of bed and feeling this undertow that you hadn't felt before. Yeah. Curious about getting medication for that. What was your inner Sarda saying at that time? Do you know? Could you hear it? Yeah. Yeah. Had you learned from some of these other shifts or was it, was your inner, that inner voice not so strong yet?

[01:08:35] Becky Vollmer: yes and yes and yes and yes. I mean, all of that. What was interesting about that period of my life was that, you know, one of the things I had done when I left. Uh, corporate was I just started writing more and, you know, remember I went to journalism school. I wrote, you know, I wrote for newspapers. I covered, um, you know, government and politics and, um, you know, I wrote about issues.

And when I moved into public relations, um, I wrote and I wrote and I wrote, you know, still on issues. I, at that point, like I wrote in everybody's voice, but my own, you know, so I wrote as a, as a CEO, or I wrote as an advocate on a particular topic, or I wrote, you know, promotional materials or you name it, but it was never in my voice.

It was not in Becky's voice. And. What I started doing, um, after I left corporate was just started writing in my own voice and writing about things like transition and courage and what did empowerment mean? Um, you know, what had happened professionally in that time was You know, so many people had, would come to me, you know, after I left my job and they'd say, Oh, you were so brave.

I think it's, you know, I wish I could do something like that. And I just, bravery was the last thing on my mind. I mean, in some ways it really leaving my job was, it didn't feel like an act of empowerment as much as it felt like an act of desperation. In retrospect, I can see, you know, I do absolutely see the empowerment part of it, but, you know, having so many people approach me to say, I could never do that.

It got me so curious around the question of why do we stay, like, why do we stay stuck? Why do we stay in situations that are making us miserable when, you know, presumably like we could just choose something different. And so I started You know, like I put my reporter hat on and I put my critical thinking hat on and I just, I started talking to people about those, you know, about those questions and about their perception.

I interviewed men and women and, you know, eventually I put a survey out in the field just to get some, you know, I wanted to have some more quantitative data around, you know, what is feeling stuck look like? How do we feel? I was really interested in the emotional implications of feeling stuck. And then behavioral implications as well?

Like, what do we do when we feel stuck? And so with that survey, I was able to collect, you know, , I wouldn't call it, You know, really quantitative data. There was a lot of qualitative, um, aspect to it too, but with several hundred responses, I mean, it was enough to, it was enough to see the patterns.

So I would write about. The things that were coming up in conversations with people. And I would write about my own experience with them and, you know, write about what I learned from quitting a job, what I was, you know, what was coming up for me in teaching yoga. Um, I had already, I'd created, you are not stuck kind of on a whim, but I had created a, what was then just a Facebook page.

about six months after I left, work. And, you know, so I was, I was just posting reflections there. And so when my marriage fell apart, I was, I was already writing and I just started writing about that. And the best part about it, this is another thing I thank my ex husband for. He did not attempt to filter or edit anything.

And I, you know, I asked him like, you know, what's You know, what's fair game, what do you want me to not write about, what would you be more comfortable if I didn't share and he'd say, it's entirely up to you. You write about what's on your mind, what's on your heart. And so that's a very long way of saying I was able to process in real time and a little bit publicly, you know, through blog, through Facebook in a way that.

I mean, it just, you know, we talked earlier about like attraction, my God, one person shares their story and then other people are just like, me too, me too, me too. And so that was where, you know, a community of just open, honest people sharing the hard things in their life was born. That was my medicine.

That was absolutely my medicine. 

[01:13:43] Heather Lowe: And then this beautiful book was born. And that's what attracted me to you. That's what still attracts me to you. Becky is well, you're, you're Stardust. You're absolutely magnetic, of course, but because you're willing to share the in process, you know, it's not just the shiny after story.

It's not fake at all. It's very authentic. You are very authentic and you're willing to be open and you're willing to share the tough parts. And I think that's so beautiful. And you're willing to say I was wrong. I look back and I would do it differently. I didn't know this at the time, or I've grown since then.

Or, um, again, your ability to adapt and change, evolve, grow, heal, and allow others to do that too. It's, it's very beautiful. And I think that is how you moved your own life. You know, from fear transformed into freedom and living the kind of life that you want. And it meant letting go of long held beliefs you had about other things.

[01:14:41] Becky Vollmer: Yeah, yeah, , I think you're absolutely right in the way you describe what it takes to evolve, you know, what it takes to let go and when you let go, I mean, I, I can remember this imagery from early in my, you know, in my yoga teacher training, like. if you're holding onto something tightly in your hand, there's no room for something new.

You have to let go to create space to hold something. And I think that's so, that is so brave of people. 

[01:15:17] Heather Lowe: We want a grip to what we know, you know, right. That feels like our protection. 

[01:15:21] Becky Vollmer: Yeah. And so, you know, people ask me, A lot. Like where did you learn the, the wisdom that's in the book?

It's like, well, shit, I, I feel like I learned it all the hard way, but, um, I also feel like I learned it from. I got five different thoughts in my mind at once. Yes. You know, my perspective, my point of view it's influenced by my own individual experience and it's filtered through my own lens and, you know, through my own language at the same time, the wisdom that has been pouring out of people for eons about acceptance.

And releasing and change and non attachment. I mean, all of the things that. those concepts that I studied, began studying 20 plus years ago in yoga philosophy, you know, a lot of the same concepts that are present in other spiritual traditions and faith traditions. I mean, they're all leading us to the same place of

coming here to this place of stardust so that we can let go of all of the things that keep us scared, that keep us trapped, that keep us, you know, in, that keep us fighting, that keep us gripping. 

[01:16:55] Heather Lowe: Yeah, remember that we're elevated from that. We're outside of that, right? Our magical, precious beings are none of that.

Our highest self is something different. 

[01:17:07] Becky Vollmer: Yeah. And so there's comfort in that, right? There's a little bit of, you know, Oh, wow, if I, if I could just do these, if I could just learn to adopt these principles and, you know, put them to use in my own life, I can achieve that state of less gripping and less fear. And when I, when I put those principles into practice over.

Longer period of time, they're going to become second nature and the more those things are second nature, the more I'm going to be operating from here, stardust, instead of here, fear. So, I don't know, Heather, I know my experience is not unique in that. It's funny that you asked about the, the, you know, kind of the chronological timeline, because I think if you were to look at so many people who have undergone any level of transformation in their life, you would, you would see this.

It's almost like there's a, there's an expansion that takes place from this narrow, like a narrow viewpoint of who we think we are,

to this broader, more spacious recognition of who we really are within a context of. What's bigger out there. And I don't know if like, you know, maybe I've lost people at this point because now I'm into, you know, airy fairy woo woo yoga teacher stuff, but like we feel a lot of pain when we are resisting what is, we feel pain when we don't get the promotion.

We feel pain when husband says, I don't love you anymore. We feel pain when, you know, a friend breaks up with us.

We start to feel less pain when we recognize that, Oh, we've already got all the good stuff right in here.

And when we can, you know, the more we share the pain, the more it gets diluted.

[01:19:19] Heather Lowe: That's exactly what I was going to say, where I'm catching your wave. You know what I mean?

[01:19:24] Becky Vollmer: I'm so glad somebody is. 

[01:19:25] Heather Lowe: I've had the pleasure of attending a yoga workshop of yours. And what started with your Facebook page is you also have a gift. Of leading collective energy. I've watched you walk people through recognizing their stardust.

And what I'm hearing today is it's an opening, and it reminds me of the quote, and I won't say the author's name right, but the flower that remained tight in the bud, right, finally can begin to blossom, to open. There's more. You thought that's all there was. You're holding so tight because you're afraid.

But when you start to open, It is more vulnerable and there is more beauty , I've watched you walk people through that. You've helped me through that. You continue to help me through that. And yeah, these are age old lessons. And also in your book, you give credit to , where you've learned, learned a lot of this too.

Um, but your viewpoint, your perspective. It's beautiful. And I'm just so jealous. I didn't go to journalism school with you where you went, because that is actually what I want to do when I grow up and I feel like I didn't know our conversation was going to grow chronological today and show your life.

But I feel like we got to learn. I mean, there are things that I didn't know about you and I'm your friend and we've had heart to heart conversations before, so I learned about you and I feel like this is really special, Becky, because I don't think you've shared in this way on every other podcast you've been on.

So we all. Got to know a new piece of you and some of your history today. So thank you for sharing with us. I have to end with the fifties. What's happening in your fifties. What's ahead for you now? This is like a bow. I got tied up. I don't know...I could talk to you for like four more hours. 

[01:21:03] Becky Vollmer: I mean, I guess it's, you know, maybe it'll be from perimenopause to full on menopause.

Maybe, you know, maybe my forgetfulness will turn on, you know, turn into full on, oh my gosh. 

[01:21:16] Heather Lowe: From brain fog to dementia. 

[01:21:18] Becky Vollmer: That's right. There's a book title right there. 

[01:21:22] Heather Lowe: Trademark 

I mean, this isn't temporary. You're actually losing your mind. 

[01:21:28] Becky Vollmer: Okay. You know, like we're joking about this a little tongue in cheek, but you know, that that's, Oh, at some point that's That is what comes.

So it's like, we have this whole lifetime of learning and at some point we will, you know, we will begin forgetting and at some point we'll forget more than, than we've ever learned. 

[01:21:56] Heather Lowe: Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. I have to tell you this. My grandma turned 101, yeah, just like last week. And so she says, What's her secret, you know, and she says it's going to bed with good memories and it's only now in her very, very old age that she's starting to get forgetful, but she still goes to bed and there's a lot she's forgotten.

Right. Um, but she's still going to bed with good memories. So I think that's. The goal and you know, I think 78 is the, is the median age, I think for women. So you would think 39 then would be your midpoint. 

[01:22:35] Becky Vollmer: Yeah. 

[01:22:36] Heather Lowe: But I was like, I'm 48. If I lived like my grandma, I'm not even close. That's right. 

[01:22:42] Becky Vollmer: And there are so many ways.

I feel like I'm just getting started. You know, I mean, Like Heather, I, it's funny. Think about what's next. Well, in a couple of hours, um, from right now I get to go to my tap dance class that I started going to, it's so ridiculous to be a beginner at something again at age 50 and, you know, just to suck at something so bad and to have so much fun doing it.

Oh my God. 

[01:23:13] Heather Lowe: Something you couldn't do in your, like, adolescence because you were so afraid of what everyone would think, right? Now you can do it and not give a shit what everyone thinks.

[01:23:21] Becky Vollmer: I don't give a shit. 

[01:23:22] Heather Lowe: Well, Stardust is having the time of her life. Oh my God. 

[01:23:25] Becky Vollmer: My Stardust loves going to tap dance class.

And I just keep thinking, like, if that's what, you know, if that's what this kind of second half is going to consist of, like, wading into new areas where I'm not afraid. Oh my God. Bring it on. Bring it on. Yeah. And I love that you are doing this. 

[01:23:49] Heather Lowe: Oh my gosh. Yeah. Well, I just got to introduce some people too, if they didn't already know.

And for the people that already love you, they got another conversation with you. So thank you so much for your time, for your energy, for your friendship. I appreciate you. Of course. All the information for how to connect with you will be in the notes and I adore you, Becky Vollmer. Thank you for having a conversation with me today.

[01:24:11] Becky Vollmer: I adore you, Heather Lowe. Thank you. 

 

[01:24:16] Heather Lowe: And that's a wrap for today's episode of the Peripeteia podcast, a talk show for women. Join us in the insider community with a seven day free trial to continue the conversation at ditchedthedrink.com. And don't forget to download my free ebook, The 12 Truths to change your life. Do it for the plot. \ , We'll see you in the next episode. Lots of love.